UNITED NATIONS , NGO's and WTBS

by MacHislopp 501 Replies latest watchtower scandals

hawkaw

db,
Thanks,
Email sent to you but I have to go get my little guy out of the daycare.
Talk to you tomorrow.
hawk
bjc2012

THE YEAR 1991, THE SEPT. 8TH AWAKE! MAGAZINE & THE UNITED NATIONS
So 1991 was that fateful year. The Year, the WTS/G.B. decided to give active "SUPPORT" to the United Nations Organization, as a NGO/DPI. Give support to the "Disgusting Thing" of Daniel. Give support to the "image of the Beast" of Revelation.
And to think, it all got started with the September 8th, 1991 Awake! magazine on the UN. The September 8th Article the very first of its kind, the first article published by the WTS that begins to show a "different," "changing" viewpoint of this so-called "Disgusting Thing" entity of Daniel and "image" of the beast of Revelation.
The WTS/G.B. has taught, since 1921 (about the "league of Nations" and its successor, the U.N. since 1945) -- that is was truly "Disgusting," an "Abomination!"
But now, in truly "underhanded" fashion, the WTS willingly gives active "SUPPORT" to this political entity, and according to what they teach, even is willing to "receive the "MARK OF THE BEAST." -- 2 Corinthians 4:2
The churches of Christendom have done this, so say the WTS.
It is the UNFORGIVEABLE Sin." The WTS/G.B. teaches that too. (See Revelation 14:9-11; "Revelation/Climax" publication pages 196-198 pars. 32-38; pages 209-211 par. 13-18.)
It is the "MARK OF THE BEAST", says the WTS. -- Revelation 14:9-11

ACTIVE SUPPORT = "MARK OF THE BEAST"
Now, lo and behold, the WTS/G.B. has been fully revealed, to be an ACTIVE SUPPORTER themselves -- the WTS is itself a "Supporter" of the United Nations Organizations as a NGO/DPI.
Now what?
Please listen to what was written about this whole situation, back in 1994, by a small band of JWs dissenters, who published a book called "The Report" Volume I in that same year.
Below is a quote taken from a publication, which was released and distributed in book stores on the along the east coast of the U.S. subsequently after that time. Information from this written document, or quoted material from it, is now presently in over 50 different countries around the world. Placed in the hands of thousands of Jehovah's Witnesses and interested persons, secretly. Quietly placed there years ago.
The primary focus of this particular information is upon the Sept. 8th, 1991 Awake! article on the UN organization. A very strange article. The FIRST of its kind. The VERY FIRST.
(I have permission from the publisher to supply this vital information for this forum.)
Here is the information:
------------"The Report" Vol. I (1994)--------
These are but a few examples that demonstrate the regressions of the Watchtower Society in policy. They have continued to regress into worldly ways and have continued to direct the organization of believers away from Jehovah God -- making them "friends of the world" and thus "enemies" with Jehovah! But how about world events of our time? How has the Watchtower Society approached these events in their literature? How have they spoken out on such events as the Persian Gulf Crisis?
Did you happen to notice during the Persian Gulf Crisis of 1991, that the Watchtower magazine was unusually quiet about the obvious idolatrous patriotism going on in the United States? Did you notice it? Yes, they were also very quiet about the apparent flag craze and flag waving that totally took over the American people during the Persian Gulf Crisis of 1991.
And lastly, the publication has been very quiet about the Satanic role of the pseudo world peace-making organization, the United Nations, in misleading the nations in this conflict. No doubt, many letters poured into Bethel during the Persian Gulf Crisis, asking: "What's going on" that is Biblically speaking? The friends are looking to the Society for answers. And yet, the Society provided no answers, that is in print. They did not point to the Bible to tell us where we are in the stream of time.
Why so silent -- all of a sudden -- so quiet about world issues, where formally there was no hesitation in SPEAKING OUT BOLDLY God's Word concerning the atrocities caused by man's persistent yet futile efforts at autonomy or self-rule? Could it be that some in high positions among Jehovah's Witnesses have adopted a "let's wait and see" attitude about world events? The Watchtower Society has been saying over and over in the publications, "the United Nations is poised to sound the international proclamation of "Peace and Security." Are we not supposed to be looking for the promised cry of "Peace and Security?" Then why is there the threat of war? The nations are supposed to be set to cry "Peace and Security." -- 1 Thessalonians 5:1-3
Clearly, there is confusion among the Jehovah's Witnesses concerning what the immediate future will bring. However, in the not-too-distant future, the Watchtower Society will display their real and true attitude for all to see. What attitude is that? Notice:
"And it must occur in that day [that] the prophets will become ashamed, each one of his vision when he prophesies; and they will not wear an official garment of hair for the purpose of DECEIVING. And he will certainly say: `I am no prophet. I am a man cultivating [the] soil, because an earthling man himself acquired me from my youth on?'"
Yes, the attitude of a Coward! -- Zechariah 13:4, 5; Proverbs 29:25; Revelation 21:8
Even now, leanings in this very direction are very clear for us to see if we compare a recent article dealing with the United Nations as a peace-making entity and previous ones on the same subject. Let's examine these together.
A CHANGE IN VIEWPOINT CONCERNING THE UNITED NATIONS
As we know, it has been said many times in the Watchtower Society's publications that the theme of the entire Bible is God's kingdom. That was the theme of Jesus' ministry and is claimed to be the theme of Jehovah's Witnesses' ministry and message under the direction of the Watchtower Society. However, an article in the September 8, 1991 Awake! never pointed to that kingdom in any form or fashion. That particular article never even mentioned God's Kingdom or any scripture of the Bible to present Jehovah's viewpoint on this disgusting and misleading organization! This was a very unusual article published by the Watchtower Society indeed. Did you notice this while reading the article yourself???
Instead of taking their previous stand of staunch resistance against the U.N., they insinuated to over 11 million readers, most of whom are not Jehovah's Witnesses, that the political organization may be able to bring about their accomplished goal of peace. You may be saying: "How did the article do that?" It was by skillful and adroit use of such noncommittal statements as:
"If this could be done, then the UN's voice of jurisdiction could authoritatively denounce any nation threatening the peace of the world."
Individuals reading this may get the idea that the U.N. is within reach of bringing about this `peace for the world.' In commenting on the Persian Gulf Crisis and the U.N.'s use of force to gain world-peace, the article had this to say:
"Perhaps you are wondering, `Was the UN's role in the Persian Gulf crisis a start in this direction?' It could be."
It is clear that this article made no attempt to clarify to the reader the difference between the false peace that man may be able to temporarily bring and the true peace that the Bible speaks about, which as we know, will come only through the "Prince of Peace," Jesus Christ. (Isaiah 9:6) Nevertheless, someone will say: "The Watchtower Society in the past, has written numerous articles stating these very same points. In fact, the Watchtower magazine over the years has become a hated publication because of taking a firm and adamant stand against the U.N. and it's predictions for the future. They don't have to spell out every detail of the Bible's position on the U.N. each time they write an article on the subject, do they? Everybody knows where the Society stands, right???"
THE TRUMPET BLAST
One might illustrate the problem this way: In war situations, most armies have battle formation cadences and alarm signals set up to alert the troops at any time of the approach of the enemy. Even, the nation of Israel had such a signal to keep the people on the alert and give critical direction in case of attack or formation for battle. How was it done? It was done by the sounding of a horn -- yes, a trumpet blast, an instrument known to be loud and clear! (See Numbers 10:3-9; 31:6) Notice this comment from the Watchtower magazine itself on this timely subject to make the critical point.
"The Aaronic priests alone were authorized to sound the sacred trumpets. The notes they blew must be clear and understandable so that the people might know what was required of them. The apostle Paul wrote: `For truly, if the trumpet sounds an indistinct call, who will get ready for battle? In the same way also, unless you through the tongue utter speech easily understood, how will it be known what is being spoken? You will, in fact, be speaking into the air.' (1 Corinthians 14:8,9)"
The article then makes the vital point as it continues:
"There is responsibility, therefore, for Christ's underpriests [anointed upon earth] today to sound out a clear-cut, easily understandable message from God's Word to all peoples, one that is couched in the language of today, that will stand out from the false and blatant and biased messages of human organizations. FEARLESSLY, and using this journal in a signal manner, as they have done for over eighty-five years, the underpriests of Christ Jesus are sounding forth a clear message from God's Word for this day in which we live ... Not to be overlooked is the fact that this same `trumpet' message sounds the call to warfare against Jehovah's enemies." -- See Watchtower 1968 page 374 par. 12,13.
Well, could we say, as mentioned in the article, that they are `fearlessly using this journal?' That is questionable, wouldn't you say??? Also, did you notice the comment: "The trumpet message sounds the call to warfare against Jehovah's enemies?" And who could be a greater "enemy" of God's people than the "beastly" political organization known as the United Nations which according to Revelation chapter 13 will be "worshipped" along with the "Dragon" in these "last days?" Could there be a greater "enemy" than this shortly-to-be persecutor of God's people? Think about it.
And just as the article pointed out, there is real danger in sounding an "indistinct call" to the troops! There is danger in just "speaking into the air" and thus jeopardizing the lives of unsuspecting millions who depend upon such "trumpet blasts." Therefore, we ask the all-important question: Did the presumed modern-day "Aaronic underpriests" [Governing Body and Watchtower Society associates] dutifully alert the nation [Jehovah's Witnesses] for spiritual battle against `the enemy,' the United Nations? Did they sound a "clear and understandable" message so that the people might know what is "required of them" before Jehovah? Or, was the thrust of this article obscure, ambiguous, cryptic, yes, `indistinct?'
QUESTIONS TO ASK YOURSELF
1)Could the article mislead people who are unfamiliar with Jehovah's Witnesses beliefs giving them the impression that the Witnesses are in favor of the United Nations?
2)Could those who are somewhat familiar with the beliefs of Jehovah's Witnesses now conclude that Jehovah's Witnesses have a new policy concerning the United Nations organization and are now in favor of such?
3)And worse, could the Jehovah's Witnesses themselves get the message that it's time to take a new approach to the message of the `enemy?' Yes, `let's soften 'em up a little bit,' then the people will listen better.'
These are questions that we need to give serious and sober consideration to. Our very lives may depend upon our having the proper perspective of this matter.
There is one additional point in this article that has definitely escaped the notice of Jehovah's Witnesses world-wide. They did not recognize on whose shoulders the real responsibility has been placed to "sound this message" about the enemy United Nations Organization. That's right, on that of the Witnesses themselves! Notice this comment from the same article:
"Jehovah's Witnesses firmly believe that the United Nations is going to play a major role in world events in the very near future. No doubt these developments will be very exciting. And the results will have a far-reaching impact on your life. We urge you to ask Jehovah's Witnesses in your neighborhood for more details on this matter."
Now, why does the reader need to "ask Jehovah's Witnesses" in his "neighborhood for more details?" What if there are no Jehovah's Witnesses in his neighborhood at all? What if the nearest Jehovah's Witness is many miles away? What is the reader to do? There was ample room for the article to provide the all-important "details" concerning Bible prophecy and the U.N., wasn't there? But instead, the writers of the article deferred. Yes, they shucked `their responsibility' as trumpet blowers. They shifted the responsibility to the "Jehovah's Witnesses in your neighborhood." Did you notice that??? What treachery! What a cowardly side-stepping of responsibility on the Watchtower Society's part! -- Revelation 21:8
PREVIOUS ARTICLES ON THE UNITED NATIONS
We will now quote from articles written over the years by the Watchtower Society on this very same subject. Notice the pointedness and direct application of Bible prophecy as it relates to the United Nations Organization.
"With `the war of the great day of God the Almighty' impending, why trust in a refuge, such as the U.N., that cannot prove trustworthy? Mankind's only hope for permanent peace is God's heavenly kingdom."  Awake! 2/8/67 pg. 4
"What a disgusting thing in God's sight that religio-political alliance responsible for killing his Son. A similar disgusting conspiracy was to be a feature of Jesus' second presence. It is here now. Today that religio-political world alliance against God's kingdom finds its most powerful expression in the clergy-blessed United Nations. What a disgusting thing this clergy-supported alliance that stands before the attention of the people where God's kingdom should stand!" -- Watchtower, 1961 page 630 par. 5
"The scarlet-colored wild beast and its `ten horns' devastate Babylon The Great (including Christendom), but not because they want to glorify Jehovah God or because they have come to love him now that they have turned to hating the religious harlot ... It is because they still fight against God's Messianic kingdom, for they strive to keep their occupance of earth by their armed might. Yes, the ten-horned scarlet-colored wild beast is still the thing that Babylon the Great hailed as a substitute for God's Messianic kingdom. So those who make up the wild beast opposed those who practice the true Christianity and who preach and faithfully stick to God's Messianic kingdom, in which the Lamb of God, Jesus Christ, serves King under Him." -- Watchtower, 1970 pg. 724, 725 par. 21.
After reading these articles and the pointed comments made in each, we would have to conclude that the former ones are quite different from the September 8th Awake! article.
"AMAZING, ASTONISHING THINGS"
But now, back to the September 8, 1991 Awake! magazine article on the United Nations. It also made these comments:
"The Bible clearly paints a picture showing that the United Nations will very shortly be given power and authority. The UN will then do some very astonishing things that may well amaze you."
"No doubt these developments will be very exciting ... far-reaching."
Why that sounds rather promising! Who wouldn't want to see some "amazing" things done in these dismal days and times? Who wouldn't want to see "exciting things," "far-reaching" things, for the lasting good of all mankind during our lifetime! Who wouldn't want to see the U.N. do such things, especially during our lifetime? This message certainly has appeal to the world! As 1 John 4:5 pointedly warns:
"They originate with the world; that is why they speak [what proceeds] from the world and the world listens to them."
Certainly, if the Watchtower Society continues to use the publications to sound such like messages, the ungodly world will in time start to "listen" to them, also. Think about it.
This is a classic case of "selling out" by telling ungodly people just what they want to hear! Yes, man's efforts will result in "peace and security" through his political governmental arrangements and not Jesus Christ, the "Prince of Peace." (Proverbs 23:23) In fact, it might surprise individuals reading this material to know what the stated purpose of this same said magazine, Awake!, is. This message is printed in the inside cover of each and every Awake! magazine. It says of it's purpose:
"It [Awake!] probes beneath the surface and points to the meaning behind current events."
Now, that's quite a statement! Can we stand before Jehovah and truthfully say that the Society has done just that with the writing of this particular article on the United Nations? Can we truthfully say that? We repeat, nowhere is there one single scripture mentioned in the entire article! No, not one. There is not one solitary mention of God's Kingdom in the whole article! How will the people know from what source real peace will come?
Believe it or not, this is the very first article of it's kind on the vital subject of the United Nations Organization. BUT IT WILL PROBABLY NOT BE THE LAST [caps mine]. There is absolutely no excuse for this! Unfaithfulness is quite evident on the part of the Watchtower Society in the publication of this article! But nevertheless, what conclusion have you reached on this article? Yes, what conclusion do you think you should reach concerning this matter? THIS: The September 8, 1991
Awake! article on the United Nations is a miserable and totally untenable display of cowardice! -- 2 Timothy 1:7

SOMETHING TO PONDER
Ask yourself: Could such a display of cowardice as demonstrated by this article be a promise of what is to come? "What things to come?" you may say. Well, let's notice Daniel 11:32 which says:
"And those who are acting wickedly against [the] covenant, he [King of the North] will lead into apostasy by means of smooth words."
Though this powerful king of the North has not prevailed upon the Watchtower Society as of yet, could this article give us a small clue of what is to happen when he does arrive on the earthly scene? Does it? Could this be a demonstration of the unhealthy influence that the United Nations Organization has over the fear-struck, Zedekiah-like Watchtower Society? Could the United Nations Organization have already taken some hidden action or made some threatening demands upon the Watchtower Society precipitating this new, softened message? Think about it.
FAITHFUL IN SOUNDING THE MESSAGE REGARDLESS
When the faithful prophet Isaiah was asked,
"Whom shall I send, and who will go for us?" He responded "Here I am! Send me." Further, he was told "Go, and you must say to this people, `HEAR AGAIN AND AGAIN . . . .'"
In other words keep repeating this message and do not stop. That was his commission. (See Isaiah 6:8-9.) And for how long? Notice the answer given in verse 11,
"Until the cities actually crash in ruins, to be without an inhabitant, and the houses be without earthling man, and the ground itself is ruined into a desolation."
Yes, preach until the very end, without "letup." (Acts 5:42) As mentioned earlier, prostitution or spiritual adultery is definitely involved in the unfaithful leaders of this organization who dwell in Brooklyn Heights, `selling out truth' for ease of life and filthy lucre. (Proverbs 23:23 and James 4:4) And faithful christians who are still a part of this unfaithful organization of Jehovah's Witnesses must arise from their sleep and come to their senses in order to escape Jehovah's wrath. -- Ephesians 5:13,14; 1 Corinthians 15:33,34
Who will be instrumental in coming to the aid of these christians? This preaching assignment has been given to the "Two-Witnesses" who were prophesied to come in our day and time.
-------end of quote from "The Report" Vol. I-----
As is mentioned above, the Sept. 8th, 1991 article, is the first article of its kind published by the WTS, that began to set this special "tone" towards the UN. There are no scriptures in the article, to my knowledge, mentioned at all in this article. When I first read it, back in 1991, it appeared to me (and other friends I knew) to be a "very strange" article published by the WTS, to say the least.
bjc
NOTE: "The Report" (1994) - ISBN 0-9649409-3-0 (This is not an advertisement to promote or sell the book, just an identification # for those who are interested and want to definitely identify the book specifically. One will have to contact the publisher to receive the book.)
hawkaw

Unreal. The whole thing is just, wow, unreal.
This is what folks near Seeley's Bay call a BIG HOG!!!!
bttt
hawk
Ranchette

Hawk & Dungbeetle
Wow!
Before I quit reading the magazines I noticed the huge change in their tone when speaking of the UN.
I couldn't believe what I was reading at the time after all those years of saying horrible things about them.
There's a reason they are buttering up to the UN now and I bet the answer will ultimatly be MONEY, even if it doesn't come directly from the UN.
Please keep us updated on this.
Ranchette
bjc2012

Hello TweetieBird (OrangeBlossom):
I remember a couple of years back, when I was first starting to doubt if "it" was the truth, I came across a web site. It was something like TWMC"...stood for "Two Witnesses Must Come" ... Actually, it was the first "apostate" site that I dared peek into and what caught my eye was that it described itself as elders looking for the society to reform (or something like that).
Anyway, they even published a book which I found at the bookstore so I purchased it and read it.
What was interesting is that it prophesied that the WTS would eventually support the UN
.
While I dismissed it as one FALSE PROPHET calling another a false prophet, it did make for some interesting reading and took away the guilt that I had felt for a long time. Perhaps, some of you may remember the website.
Just wondering, are the writers of "The Report" still "false prophets"?
bjc
Dogpatch

Ahh, followers of the "Two Witnesses."
Wasn't the corporate sellout to mammon recognized by many others? Even Jeanne Dixon could have got that right.
This is what I wrote a few years ago, correct me if I am wrong:
http://www.freeminds.org/history/report.htm
Apostasy Knocks At Bethel's Door
A Look at "The Report"
The first of many dissenters to challenge the mother organization
I had heard about "The 'Report'" a few months ago. It was a book that was somehow making its way into a lot of bookstores, a rather unusual phenomena for a self-published work. Someone was spending a lot of time and effort to get this message out. After a proponent of the book (which is now printed in three volumes, and in spite of the web site teaser must be purchased for $12.95 each) joined our Internet mail list, I decided to do a report on "The 'Report'." Surfing on over to their website at www.the-report.com/overview.htm I read the following:
Overview of The Report
MY colleagues and I are pleased that you are interested in reading the document we call THE "REPORT." We feel sure that you will find this particular information quite beneficial and enlightening as one who "thirsts for truth and righteousness." (Matthew 5:6) In fact, the following material, we think, will help you identify modern-day "Israel" of Bible prophecy, ~ whom we believe to be Jehovah's Witnesses as a nation. But you must be thinking at this point:
What would make a rational individual think that this small, obscure, and seemingly, odd family of about five million people, scattered throughout the earth, could in any way represent the nation of "Israel," of Bible prophecy? 1
"Ah, it looks like defectors from the Watchtower, who still haven't completed their homework," I thought. Not that I condemn a person for still holding on to organizational ideas, as most of us can remember how long it took us to get free of their selective indoctrination. It takes a few years unless the person is especially studious and has a good deal of exposure to other people and ideas, as well as a few history lessons. "Apparently these fellows are still trying to piece it all together," I thought. Yet as I read on, it appears they had already come to solid conclusions and bet their money on it, in a most literal way. They even called themselves the "Two Witnesses" of the Apocalypse of John.
The purpose of THE "REPORT" document can best be described in the following words spoken at Ezekiel 21:6, 7 which says: "And as for you, O son of man, sigh with shaking hips. Even with bitterness you should sigh before their eyes. And it must occur that, in case they say to you, 'On account of what are you sighing?' you must say, "At a report." 2
"The 'Report'" is a moral indictment against the Watchtower, and as it turns out, a prophecy regarding them, supposedly backed by Jehovah God himself. Perhaps even a new "faithful and discreet slave" in the works? Unlike the Franz Incident at Bethel in 1980 and other recent forms of dissent in Watchtower history, these authors are attempting to salvage the Watchtower and even declare judgement from God on the powers that be, until only those whom God chose as leaders would be fit to run God's one true organization. Shades of Joe Rutherford! (This stands in stark contrast to those of us who left Bethel in 1980, none of which has desired to return, start our own religion or denomination, or even desired to do so.)
Were it not for the small footprint of these "Two Witnesses," one might think they pose a formidable threat to the Watchtower leadership. Yet their main web page showed only 5642 visitors since early 1997 (a little over a month's number of visitors for the Free Minds, Inc. website). Yet "The 'Report'" is available from some major bookstores across the country, something Free Minds, Inc. cannot match. Clearly some money has been spent to get this message out. This is a direct threat to the powers that be, a true "apostasy" from the direction of the Governing Body and Service Dept. of the Watchtower.
The writers of "The 'Report'" (who still mirror the mock-humility of the Governing Body in writing a book and refusing to sign their name) declare that God will shortly visit his judgements on this modern Israel of God, namely Jehovah's Witnesses:
Therefore, we say, if the things written about in this document come to pass, and if they come true as they are written in this document, then it could only have happened by the "Hand of God." It would be supernatural intervention. It would have to be considered, an Act of God.— Isaiah 30:26 3
The most obvious question to ask at this point is, "Why, if they believe that the Watchtower organization has become corrupt, do they still believe it is comprised of God's only true people?" "The 'Report'" website responds with a series of FAQs (Frequently Asked Questions) and their answers. They answer the question as follows:
The following characteristics distinguish [Jehovah's Witnesses] as modern-day Israel:
1) Called by God's Personal Name
2) Monotheistic (nontrinitarian)
3) Iconoclastic (no images) 4
Not satisfied with the Governing Body's list of requirements for identifying God's people, the "Two Witnesses" form their own list of requirements and add, "...it is the 'framework of Truth' that differentiates them from all other religions on the face of the earth today." 5
Possessing the only true faith is not enough, sayeth the Two Witnesses, since Jehovah God will not tolerate the commercialism, disobedience and twisting of the scriptures as practiced by the current leadership. The Governing Body, yes, ALL Jehovah's Witnesses must repent and yet still expect persecution in the near future by the hands of God (note the WT writing style):
Yes, these things are now being revealed because Jehovah God has now ordained a "measuring" period to begin upon these wicked, villianous characters who lead this organization of God's Name People, called Jehovah's Witnesses. And after such a "measuring" period, Oh, how they resemble their first century counterparts, the Pharisees and Sadducees! After such a "measuring," it becomes quite clear that there is a need, a REAL NEED for someone to do something. Someone to say something. Someone to act, boldly, in Jehovah's Name. And someone will. Jehovah will "cause" as the Scriptures say, His "Two Witnesses" to speak or "witness." Yes, the beginning of the movement the Bible calls, the "Two Witnesses." And their ministry will indeed place the issue of deception concerning 1914, and other issues, squarely before each and every Jehovah's Witness on earth today, as modern-day Israel. We can know this because it is Jehovah God Himself, the Almighty, who has "caused" such witnessing to happen in the first place. Think about it. -- See Revelation 11:3 6
According to "The ‘Report,‘" Jehovah's Witnesses will have to decide between the current leadership and Jehovah, and it even gives a timetable of events (scriptural, of course):
And after the 3 1/2 year ministry of the "Two Witnesses" has been complete -- then, and only then, will greater acts of "discipline" be administered by the "God of Truth." (Psalms 31:5) These greater acts will handled by Jehovah God Himself, in His allowing the political nations to overrun His People and render them completely powerless before their enemies. This has happened before in years past to disobedient "Israel." And it will happen again to modern-day "Israel" of our day. This Divine Discipline, upon the nation of Jehovah's Witnesses, will be administered before a worldwide audience for a particularly difficult and trying time of some "42-months," a specific period of time of discipline. Many prophecies testify to this coming judgment upon modern-day "Israel." -- Ezekiel 36:33-36; Daniel 7:25; Daniel 12:7; Revelation 11:2; 12:13, 14; 13:5-7 7
Jehovah then rages against his organization. What must they do to be saved from his anger? "Get the Report."
Jehovah now demonstrates "rage" upon His "adversaries," His Own Name People. God's People must "understand what has been heard [Ref. NWT fnt. "the report"]. Yes, they must "understand" the "Report," the "thing heard." -- Isa 28:17-19; Jeremiah 23:19, 20.
Finally, after the "rage," and other disciplinary actions upon His part, Jehovah has thus, taken matters into His Own hands. He brings about what He deems, "necessary" action or "discipline" to cleanse the nation of the wrongdoing or "practiced" sin. This "discipline" could take many forms, like famine, pestilence, being overrun by nearby enemy nations temporarily, or even having their "temple" destroyed and being led into captivity and re-deposited upon foreign soil. Whatever it takes to deal with the situation -- Jehovah now at "war" with His Own People, administering "discipline" as a "father" would upon his "sons," just as the Mosaic Law outlined He would do in keeping HIS end of the Covenant or contract. After which, if His people are "repentant," then he "restores" them. In this way, Jehovah "FIXES IT." -- Please consider Isaiah 30:26; Micah 4:6, 7; 1 Kings 8:46-52; Hebrews 12:5-13. 8
One suspects at this point that there are politics hidden just beneath the sheets. First of all, the "Two Witnesses," whoever they are in human form, are apparently so overwhelmed by the visual organization's scholarship over the last 100 years that they consider it to be Jehovah's own "framework of Truth," while simultaneously accusing the Governing Body of gross idolatry by putting the "organization" to the fore. They deny the necessity of the door-to-door work as the main way of preaching their message (something the current leadership will no doubt use against them). They oppose the idolatry of the "organization" concept (which begs the question, "What would replace it?). They oppose the emphasis on chronology and 1914, and they oppose the practice of shunning those who are disassociated or disfellowshipped. Apostasy is considered largely a future event, rather than a condition found in dissenting individuals (2 Thes. 2:3).
Perhaps they will continue to research the Watchtower's "framework of Truth" in the days ahead, and discover their complete lack of understanding of historical Christianity. More importantly, I would hope that they focus on the message of grace and forgiveness of Jesus Christ. What happened to many of us at Bethel in 1979-1980 was proof that even the "Two Witnesses" might see Christianity in a different light.
bluesapphire

Oh my God! 1991! Hawk, thanks for calling them. I am flabbergasted. I don't know how to use this information but I plan to use it. And someone else said this is when the Awake first published a positive article about the UN.
Tina

hmmm my questions are since they have some type of liason status,does that give them a sort of carte blanche to go into developing countries? And if so are they aware that it's basically a religious prosyletizing work under the guise of 'humanitarian' work.That this work does not include job training(other than any that fits in w/ their agenda) And that physical aid is limited to possible converts only? And if so allowed,are they aware that the WTS is considered a cult in some countries? And how does their brand of anti-govt,religious work fit in under the charter? Is this not an abuse of the charter? That they actually abuse human and civil rights of their own memebrs? I'll re-read all the posts in case these were answered and I somehow missed it. Yanno there's an Awake,not that old,that shows a vehicle in an African nation,WTS logo on the door,where it clearly states that they were looking for BROS and SIS to assist. Meaning that truck bypasses all the elderly,sick babies etc that weren't of that faith. Thanks again.T
Carl Sagan on balancing openness to new ideas with skeptical scrutiny..."if you are open to the point of gullibility and have not an ounce of skeptical sense-you cannot distinguish useful ideas from worthless ones."
MacHislopp

Hello everyone,
these few line, in a hurry just to exporess
you my gratritude for sharing in the developpment of this
extraordinary topic!!!
Eventually, your latest answers do confirm it,- thanks
Hawkaw and Dungbeetle - we have the fatidic date: 1991!!!
So for over 10 YEARS the WTS has been HIDING this FACT from
all the JW's in general.
In mho this kind of information will SHAKE, or SHOULD SHAKE
THOUSANDS and THOUSANDS of JW's worldwide, provided that we
can give this information the WIDEST PUBLICITY AS POSSIBLE!
Btw, Dungbeetle, I don't think , actually it is certain, that in
Greece DOES NOT exist the alternative military servcice. Still
today the WTS has many court cases going one at the European
Human Rights Court of STRASBOURG (France). Some cases are even
listed in their own web site.
I'll come back with more comments.
Thanks to all of you for the cooperation in this matter,
Greetings, J.C.MacHislopp
P.S. A question for Tina:
Did you ever see in the USA, a brochure called:
" MISSION TO AFRICA " ? It was printed originally
in France, June 1977.-
" One who has an accurate knowledge
of God's Word will have no problem
in refuting false religious ideas".
dungbeetle

<"Btw, Dungbeetle, I don't think , actually it is certain, that in
Greece DOES NOT exist the alternative military servcice">
* http://web.amnesty.org/802568F7005C4453/0/ABD3348817B2C1698025690000693045?Open&Highlight=2,jehovah
AI-index: EUR 25/011/1997 31/10/1997
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News Service 184/97
AI INDEX: EUR 25/11/97
31 OCTOBER 1997
Greece: Rights of conscientious objectors denied by new laws
Amnesty International today wrote to the Greek authorities criticizing both the new law on conscientious objection passed by the Greek Parliament in June, and a new draft law on Universal Defence shortly to be presented to parliament by the Greek Government.
Law 2510/97, adopted by the Greek Parliament on 5 June, introduces for the first time the right for conscripts who are opposed to the personal use of arms for fundamental reasons of conscience based on religious, philosophical, ideological or moral convictions to claim conscientious objector status and to perform an alternative civilian service.
"We welcome the introduction of this right but the law does not go far enough," Amnesty International said today. "Many of the measures are punitive and the law fails to recognize that conscientious objectors have the right to develop conscientious objection during military service."
"About 250 conscientious objectors -- all Jehovah's Witnesses -- are imprisoned because they have refused to perform military service on religious grounds. These people are prisoners of conscience and should be released immediately."
Amnesty International has numerous criticisms of Law 2510/97: the length of the new alternative civilian service is punitive (42 months compared to 24 months for military service) and its provisions for alternative service can be suspended in case of war. Also, the provisions of the law relating to alternative civilian service do not come into force until January 1998 and conscientious objectors who refuse to perform military service in the meantime still face prison sentences of up to four years.
Another conscientious objector, who is not a Jehovah's Witness, also faces imminent arrest for refusing, on grounds of conscience, to perform military service. Lazaros Petromelidis, a 37-year-old married man with one child, first declared his conscientious objection to military service in a letter to the military authorities in 1992. On 7 October 1997 he wrote to the Navy Conscription Office, stating that he was prepared to perform alternative civilian service, as provided for under Law 2510/97. However, on Monday of this week police officers visited his home to enforce a warrant for his arrest, issued last December. Lazaros Petromelidis is currently in hiding. Amnesty International is calling on the Greek authorities to suspend the arrest warrant issued.
In its letter to the Greek Government Amnesty International also criticized a new draft law on Universal Defence, shortly to be presented to parliament. According to reports, the new law will make it compulsory for all women aged between 18 and 50, and for all men aged between 18 and 65 who are not currently serving in the armed forces or in the National Guard, to complete a period of training in universal defence units.
The exact duration of the compulsory training is unclear. Certain groups of women, such as those who are pregnant or who have children under the age of 12, are to be exempt. The units will reportedly come under the administration of the General Staff of the Ministry of Defence, and members of units will perform a range of functions, such as responding to natural disasters, guarding vital installations and providing first aid. It is also reported that members of the units, particularly those based in border areas, will be given training in the use of arms.
The new draft legislation reportedly contains no provisions for allowing those people who object to military service on grounds of conscience to register their objection. Failure to report for service will, according to the draft law, be punishable by a period of imprisonment of between six and 12 months, increasing to a maximum of three years in prison in periods of general mobilization, such as has existed in Greece since 1974.
"The Greek authorities should review the provisions of Law 2510/97 and the new draft law on Universal defence with a view to bringing them both into line with international standards and recommendations on the right to conscientious objection," Amnesty International said.
and...
* http://www.state.gov/www/global/human_rights/irf/irf_rpt/1999/irf_greece99.html
Although Jehovah's Witnesses are recognized as a "known" religion, in previous years the military consistently refused to exempt their clergy from mandatory military service. This practice was found to be in violation of Articles 5 and 6 of the European Convention on Human Rights by the European Court of Human Rights in two decisions reached in 1997. In January 1998, a law providing an alternative form of mandatory national service for conscientious objectors took effect. It provides that conscientious objectors may work in state hospitals or municipal services for 36 months. Conscientious objector groups generally characterized the legislation as a "positive first step" but criticized the 36-month alternative service term, which is double the regular 18-month period of military service. Since January 1998, all Jehovah's Witnesses, both clergy and laymen, who wished to submit applications for alternative nonmilitary service were permitted to do so. In one case, an application was submitted late and the applicant was instructed to appear for mandatory military service. The applicant appealed this decision; the results of the appeal are pending.
* http://www.watchman.org/jw/jweurope.htm
(I believe this needs updating)
ATHENS, Greece A group of about 300 Jehovah's Witnesses are being held in jail for refusing to enter the European Union's armed forces. The conscientious objectors have been offered no alternative to the mandatory 18-21 month service, and are currently serving four-year prison sentences. Amnesty International, stated in their 1993 report that more than 5,000 years of collective prison time has been served by Greek conscientious objectors. Many countries offer conscientious objectors an alternative to military service, but no such provision exists in Greece.
dungbeetle... STILL cleaning up the crap.

UNITED NATIONS , NGO's and WTBS

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