Elder video is up~ (page 13)

El Kabong

I can't find the words to describe the disgust I feel after watching that video.

I can only give you a big hug. (((((((((((alamb)))))))))))))))

I'm so sorry....

El K

For those who missed, Farkel said it best in this thread. It was about this case: It is not a difficult thing to find self-condemning words from the Watchtower Printing and Lying Corporation. One merely needs to look at the filth and scum they spread about those who do not agree with them to find such self-condemning words. Then, simply substitute themselves for their enemies and see how true their own words ring. Feb 15, 2004 Watchtower: - Guard Against Deception What is it that apostates want? Most are not content to leave the faith that they once perhaps viewed as true. Often, they want to take others with them. Rather than going out and making disciples, many apostates seek to ?draw away the disciples [that is Christ?s disciples] after themselves: ?Look out: perhaps there may be someone who will carry you off as his prey.? Does that not describe what many apostates try to do? Like a kidnapper who carries an unsuspecting victim away from his family, apostates prey upon trusting members of the congregation, seeking to carry them away from the flock. What is it that Watchtower leaders want? None of them are content to let their members leave the faith that they once perhaps viewed as true. They want to destroy those lives and the lives of their families. Rather than just letting them peacefully leave their religion, Watchtower leaders seek to ?draw the family members? away from those people and to themselves. Regarding false teachers, the apostle Paul sounded this urgent warning: ?Look out: perhaps there may be someone who will carry you off as his prey. Does that not describe what Watchtower leaders try to do? Like a kidnapper who carries an unsuspecting victim away from his family, Watchtower leaders prey upon trusting members of the victim?s family, seeking to carry them away from the victim. What methods do apostates use to achieve their aim? They often resort to distortions, half-truths, and outright falsehoods. Jesus knew that his followers would be victimized by those who would ?tell all kinds of evil lies against? them. Such malicious opposers would tell what is not true with the intent to deceive others. The apostle Peter warned about apostates who would use ?counterfeit words,? spread ?deceptive teachings,? and ?twist the Scriptures? to their own ends. Sadly, apostates succeed in ?subverting the faith of some.? - 2nd Timothy 2:18 What methods do Watchtower leaders use to achieve their aim? They often resort to distortions, half-truths, and outright falsehoods. Jesus knew that his followers would be victimized by those who would ?tell all kinds of evil lies.? Such malicious religious leaders would tell what is not true with the intent to deceive others. The apostle Peter warned about religious leaders would use ?counterfeit words,? spread ?deceptive teachings?, and ?twist the Scriptures? to their own ends. Sadly, Watchtower leaders succeed in destroying thousands and thousands of families every year. How can we guard against being deceived by apostates? Be heeding the advice from God?s Word, which says: ?Keep your eye on those who cause divisions and occasions for stumbling contrary to the teaching that you have learned, and avoid them.? We ?avoid them? by steering clear of their reasonings-whether in person, in printed form, or on the Internet. Why do we take such a stand? First, because God?s Word directs us to do so, and we trust that Jehovah always has our best interests at heart. How can we guard against being deceived by Watchtower leaders? By heeding the advice from God?s Word, which says: ?Keep your eye on those who cause divisions and occasions for stumbling contrary to the teaching that you have learned, and avoid them. We ?avoid them? by steering clear of their reasonings ? whether in person, in printed form, or in their religious indoctrination settings. Why do we take such a stand? First, because God?s word directs us to do so, and we trust that Jehovah always has our best interest at heart. Second, we love the organization that has taught us the precious truths that so plainly separate us from Babylon the Great. At the same time, we recognize that our knowledge of God?s purpose is not perfect; our understanding has undergone adjustments over the years. Loyal Christians are content to wait on Jehovah for all such refinements. Meanwhile, we will not abandon the organization that God is please to use, for we see the clear evidence of his blessing upon it. Second, we love the Bible that has taught us the precious truths that so plainly separate us from religious leaders who want to put us into bondage. At the same time, we recognize their knowledge of God?s purpose is far from perfect; their understandings have undergone adjustments over the years, and will continue to do so as it serves their purpose to keep us more and more in bondage to them. Loyal Christians are content to wait on Jehovah for all such refinements, and not let modern-day self-proclaimed ?prophets? of his tell us what they think God wants from us. Meanwhile, we will abandon the organization that claims God is pleased to use, for we see the clear evidence of God?s condemnation of it and its wickedness. Enemy Tactics Attach can come from any quarter, and the enemy tries to catch you unawares. Rest assured, though, that Jehovah has supplied all the protection you need. The enemy may aim a blow by attacking Bible truths that are fundamental to your faith. Apostates may use smooth words, flattery, and twisted reasoning to try to defeat you. But the apostate does not have your well being at heart. Proverbs 11:9 notes ?By his mouth the one who is an apostate brings his fellowman to ruin, but by knowledge are the righteous rescued.? Attack can come from any quarter, and the enemy tries to catch you unawares. Rest assured, though, that Jehovah has supplied all the protection you need. The enemy may aim a blow by attacking Bible truths that are fundamental to genuine Christian faith. Watchtower leaders may use smooth words, flattery, and twisted reasoning to try to defeat you. But the Watchtower does not have your well being at heart. ?By his mouth the one who is a wicked religious leader brings his fellowman to ruin, but by knowledge are the righteous rescued.? It would be a mistake to think that you need to listen to apostates or to read their writings to refute their arguments. Their twisted, poisonous reasoning can cause spiritual harm and contaminate your faith like rapidly spreading gangrene. Rather, imitate God?s response to apostates, Job said of Jehovah: ?Before him no apostate will come in.? It would be a mistake to think that you need to listen to Watchtower leaders or to read their writings to refute their arguments. Their writings and conduct defeat the arguments of Jesus himself. Their twisted, poisonous reasoning can cause spiritual (and familial) harm and contaminate your faith like rapidly spreading gangrene. Rather, imitate God?s response to wicked religious leaders, Job believed of Jehovah: ?Before him, no religious family-destroying assholes will come in.? Consider these statements from a mother whose only crime was to try to peacefully remove herself and children from the wicked grip of Watchtower bondage by quietly resigning from the religion. Her children are still steeped in Watchtower Bondage by their father who with his family has lied and slandered the mother, disregarding the well being and mental health of the children and subjugating them to the demands of Watchtower tyranny. After looking at these comments, consider who the REAL apostates are, the apostates that daily wage war against every shred of human decency, freedom of choice and unity of family: ?I am not allowed to go to parent teacher conferences with my children. ?I am not allowed to discuss classes that are available to them or give them advice on a career. ?I am not allowed to drop them off to sleep overs or contact persons holding them. I cannot phone to say goodnite. ?I am not allowed to HOLD sleepovers for their friends as they must all shun me. ?I am not allowed to attend parties the girls do or help them throw them with other parents. ?I will not be allowed to attend their graduations. ?I am shunned at school performances to the point my daughter cries and is torn from my arms. ?I will not be allowed to attend their weddings. ?They are not allowed to attend my wedding. ?They would not be allowed to attend my funeral, should I die. ?They cannot take part in family dinners if I pray over them. ?They cannot attend any church with me and have written suicide notes due to an invitation to another Christian church. ?I am not allowed to make medical decisions for them. ?I am told by them that my judgment is impaired and I cannot give parental advice. ?They are required to read literature that calls me a worker of Satan. ?I am not allowed to introduce them to any non-JW family I have recently found. ?I am not allowed to take them on church days although I have been given liberal visitation. ?They are told I am in an adulterous marriage and my children are its product. ?They are told when they are 18 they will be told of my sins which are unmentionable to them at their young age now. ?They are put in contact with my father, an admitted child molester against court order with permission of their religion. As a young girl, I was raped hundreds of times over 8 years by this man, yet from then until now, he is a WT member in good standing. I was told by my own JW mother that what he did was not rape at all: I was ?old enough to consent.? I was 12 years old when it started. ?They are put in contact with persons who shun me and who counteract my rights as a parent. ?I have no criminal record. ?I have 2 other children through marriage. ?I attend church. ?I am the Human Rights Director for an educational organization designed to help abused children. ?I am the state representative for an organization against abuse of children. ?I am listed as a safe house for abused children. ?I am trained as a foster parent. ?I received the Courage Award from another organization against child molestation. ?Yet I am viewed as a danger to my own children by their teachings. ?My life suffers and my children are robbed of a loving parent, something many children don?t even have. I've viewed video tapes of one of the trials and am astounded at the amount of lying dubs will use to get their way. The local City Overseer denied UNDER OATH that the WTS had a booklet on preparing for Child Custody cases, even though the Judge had that booklet in his possession. He denied under oath that the WTS had published the "Organized" (to Accomplish Our Ministry, or its latest incarnation) book. He refused to read direct quotes from the WTS publications because he said they were from "apostate web sites." ?The propaganda from the Feb 15, 2004 Watchtower quoted above was studied by my children and used against me.? ?Likewise every good tree produces fine fruit, but every ROTTEN tree produces worthless fruit; a good tree cannot bear worthless fruit, neither can a rotten tree produce fine fruit.? (You can?t shine shit, Watchtower leaders.) ?Every tree producing fine fruit gets cut down and thrown into the fire. Really then, by their fruits you will recognize those [men].? Indeed. Farkel edited to correct formatting only

belbab

alamb, I have another question that I hope you can clarify. The injustices of your story grate me to the corre of my being.

You mentionned that you obtained documents signed by the police that would allow the elder to be charged for perjury, but the courts had no time or staff to persue the matter.

Could you yourself, or in a class action suit involving others who have lost custody of their children to the Watchtower, take up the cause in a civil suit? Can the lying elder be charged under a civil suit for perjury?

I am not a lawyer, but perhaps others that know more about law than I can answer this question.

By asking this question, I am curious to know whether this is a possibility. At the same time I want to rattle the chains of the Watchtower Association of Strategic Liars. Let them sweat a little, and hopefully much.

belbab

BluesBrother

I wonder that lying s. o b. was conducting the Watchtower Study the week before last. - article , "Do Not Allow Place For the Devil", par 10& 11

"Jehovah the God of truth blesses only his truthful witnesses. The wicked have no right to represent him"

"Our very salvation depends on our 'walking in the truth' - adhering to it and standing firm against the 'father of the lie' "

I bet it never reached is conscience.

At the very least, he lied by omission . He knows there is a custody package available to defendants of custody cases, by whatever name it should be called. He knows that d/f'd family members are to be treated totally differently if they do not live in the same house. So it is "Honour your father and your mother", as long as you live at home.. The illustrations he gave were not a fair answer to the questions...

I am still a little confused as to the background and outcome of this case. Could anybody summarize it for us?

enigmatoo

Who are you toreador ?

daystar

As I was reading the text from farkel that alamb posted, I began to remember what it was like being a JW when a person in the congregation was DF'd, or worse, named as apostate.

It was as if yesterday they were our brother, we loved them, they were family, but today... today they are evil, and maybe even out to get us.

How sad how blind we were... and how happy we are to no longer be trapped by such vile devices!

alamb

The case started in 1998. I left their father with a Protective Order in 1997. He launched proceedings against me to have me DF'd and thus garner support for himself in the congregation. I was represented by the State of Utah until it got too huge and they dropped it although they were supposed to represent me due to teh Protective Order.

His friends on the Judicial Committee could not come up with a charge to disfellowship me other than I was an "uncontrollable woman" for moving out of our home. The Protective order stated he couldn't be within 1000 ft. of me. I appealed the decision to DF me. I was horrified that after growing up in the truth, pioneering since age 16, turning down a scholarship to continue to pioneer, being an elder's wife with 3 children, having applied for Bethel service oversees, worked unassigned territory, the works...I had no support from the elder body. I believed I had run into a bad batch of elders. I appealed the decision and they saw obvious problems with how it had been handled. But they kept trying to cover for one another. Upon seeing how I was treated and how things were handled, I knocked on the JC door and told them I would save them the trouble and I told them I was disfellowshipping them for conduct which was unchristian. I shook their hands and left. I told them I would still be at meetings with my children because I believed in Jehovah, not them. I continued to go to every meeting for 2.5 years and was recommended for reinstatement 4 times by 2 elder bodies. I didn't wish to be reinstated until things were made right.

In the meanwhile, these court proceedings were going on. I knew that they would use shunning to the extreme to alienate the girls from me. I got on the internet to find court cases to use, etc. and found out the Truth was a lie. I bumped into H2O and Silentlambs and appeared in Christianity Today as my first act of leaving the Org. http://www.geocities.com/veniceexjw/ct.html

The court saw the obvious problems with the shunning and told my ex he could have custody if he could guarantee I would not be shunned. The oldest child was telling the court she wanted to go with her dad to be in the New System and the others were too young to speak with the court. They didnt' want to split them up. My children's father wrote a letter to the court stating there would be no shunning. The court made an order that I could not be shunned and that the children cannot associate with anyone who shuns me:

"Mr. M shall not directly or indirectly expose or allow the children to be exposed to shunning of their mother, or to engage in any family contacts or religious activities that directly or indirectly suggest or expose them to teachings, scriptural interpretations or declarations that Mrs. Montgomery is anything less than a good and honorable person and fully worthy of designated, implied, inferred, promised, reserved, assumed, or otherwise available, obtainable or receivable, so called spiritual blessings or rewards which might be obtained or available to faithful religious persons, including faithful members of the JW church. This shall include his exposure of the children to family members, church teachers, preachers, or other advocates of the JW church or to any condemning doctrines or activities. Mr. M shall not have, suggest or cause any religious communications with the chidlren, advise them regarding religion or direct or advise them regarding what their personal conduct or religious activities should be, or monitor their activities to determine if they are in compliance with his religious beliefs, while they are with Mrs. M."

I believe this was the courts way of giving him a choice, his religion, or his children. He agreed to this stipulation and was given custody. Of course he does not abide by it at all. The ONLY association the girls have is with people who shun me. I joined the PTA to have contact with the girls through their schooling. A teacher at the school told me he called a meeting with the school and told them I lost custody due to being "mentally unstable" (another lie, but this would give anything I did for the girls a shadow of inauthenticity). The school board told me they didn't believe what he had told them after having me help at the school the first year. The next year he pulled the eldest two and home-schooled them to isolate them further. He is a 7th grade drop-out and signed on to teach them their junior high and high school year.

The eldest asked me for permission to be baptized last year and I had to agree lest it be called religious persecution and I be known as a hindrance to her "spirituality." The others still attend meetings and go in service and associate with MY family without my permission. Including my father.

The youngest leaves notes at school to be found by teachers and leaves letters at my house begging to "come home". A special master has been assigned to help us mediate any decisions.

I attended a convention where the "Beware the Voice of Strangers" drama was given and when I walked in the center, the security guards followed me. They asked to seat me but I told them I had attended assemblies there for 12 years, I could find a seat. I sat down, put a tape recorder on the seat on either side of me and taped the whole thing. I also saw my children sitting with my parents, breaking another court order and got photos of that. I called Campus Police and had them document that a court order was being broken and they were witnesses to it.

I am now self-represented but cannot fight for them if the eldest two hold to their beliefs that they are in spiritual danger while with me. Their peers are all JW's now too, as they don't attend school.

It is like watching them sink in quick-sand and my hands are tied. I wouldn't wish this on anyone.

I have looked for help for years but there is little that can be done. An Alienation of Affection suit could be filed when the last one reaches 18 and after they are gone forever.

I would be interested in pursuing charges but I'm not sure perjury is a civil issue. Anyone?

alamb

Another complication:

The only people I knew in the entire world were JW's and I could not bring anyone to support me to court. This was obviously a worry to the court but I tried to explain it. I had friends call to say how sorry they were and they knew what was happening but they were afraid that if they came to support me in court, they would be DF'd. I did round up some affidavits from my high school teachers and neighbors, but nothing like it should have been for a mother of three in her 30's.

I should state too, that my father's brother, a non-JW contacted me and offered to "level the playing field." He had heard the allegations against me and knew it was lies and he took it upon himself to find me. He and his entire family have stepped up and taken me and my family in through this and written affidavits in our support. THEY HAVE BEEN THE TRUE FAMILY. Although I had only seen them twice while growing up. Turns out he had been sending research he did on the JW's to my father for years with no answer. He had also sent Birthday cards and such which was never given to me. I have missed so much not knowing them. I am still finding cousins and cry every time I open the mailbox and find a card or receive an e-mail from them telling us to hang in there, they love us. I hope to someday make it to meet them again and thank them in person. It has been 30 years. They have taught me unconditional love and what a family really is.

My parents heard I had "left the truth" and knew they wouldn't have access to the kids if I got custody so they enrolled to support my ex. This also made the little problem of the molestation go away, if I was out of the picture and DA'd, I was obviously the "black sheep" and the problem from the beginning. My mother bragged in court about not having spoken to me in 6 years. Bless her heart.

alamb

To my kids, I can't show the two eldest...I'll respect their beliefs.

I love you forever....I will never stop.

Look at the people who are fighting for you. This is unconditional love.

ballistic

The only people I knew in the entire world were JW's and I could not bring anyone to support me to court

Thanks for explaining the story. Although I could not imagine what it is like to go through all that, I do remember the feeling after being DF having no friends - I was going through a divorce at the same time also. Coming out of the witnesses can leave you mentally unprepared to deal with the world, and trying to grow up at the same time, I made lots of mistakes. It was a difficult time. But to think you had to fight the "enemy within" at the same time, a group of people who claim to be honourable people above reproach, if you really think about it is horrifying.

Elder video is up~

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