URGENT , Got meeting tonight(Beards) (page 4)

AhHah

I don't visit here often anymore, but this topic caught my interest. I wore a beard for a few years before I stopped associating (I was raised a JW) and I still do. My elders in a California congregation didn't particularly like it, but they accepted it -- I was allowed to give talks on the Ministry School in the Main Hall. Some in the congregation told me that I was setting a bad example for the "young ones", even though I wore a short, well groomed beard. I knew that there was no valid scriptural reason for the objection. No one in the field ministry ever questioned the beard or even noticed the beard for that matter. Only the JW's cared one way or another.

Make no mistake. The issue of wearing a beard is about one thing and one thing only -- conformity. Not unity, not Christian brotherhood, not "stumbling your brother", not appearance befitting a minister, but conformity. The military uses it effectively, as do cults and other religions. A simple fact of human nature is that if you force everyone to look the same, it is much easier to also make them think the same and not question their authority structure. Since the JW's attempt to control the lives and thinking of its members, it is to their advantage if they can also make everyone look the same. Independent grooming leads to independent thinking, which leads to questioning their self-appointed authority, which leads to the realization that the JWs are a cult. We can't have that, now can we?

felix a

Stiffler

While I was still attending meetings and living in Brooklyn I grew my beard. It was a well trimmed goatee. The response of my landlord who was a member of my congregation and a good friend was a comment on the size of my balls and what they were made of. One of my best friends was the school overseer, he never said a word about the goatee for two months. It wasn't until the service overseer twisted his arm and asked for a meeting with me in the back school one evening that my friend said anything to me. Even then he didn't want to be there or part of the matter. Or at least that was the impression I had from him. We were tight and the rest of the body knew it, they asked him to be there. I believe in the hope that he would be able to persuade me to shave it off.

Most of the time in back was spent listening to the service overseer carry on about not stumbling and the like. My friend was mostly quiet and the other bro just made his occasional comment. As for me I played it cool and got the guy to get down to the bottom line, namely, that he personally had a problem with beards. After that I just asked him why he hadn't just approached me one on one about the matter if it bothered him so much.

This led to those famous questions about do I believe this is God's organization and that the GB are the faithful and discreet slave.

I guess part of what bothered them is that I had served in this congregation while I was at Bethel and for a few months before getting married to my first wife. I also had been a pioneer there in the past. Granted I was in another congregation for about seven years while married and then I returned to theirs after my divorce.

So what the elder body was contending with is a brother who was likeable, who had been a Bethelite, served in the congregation and pioneered and now was attending with a beard.

Some of my favorite moments that came about from wearing the beard to meetings and hanging with friends was to get compliments from some of their wives. One poor Bethel Elder had to try and explain to his wife why couldn't grow one... Just makes me feel warm all over at the thought.

So all I can say is if you are going to associate at a congregational level with the Witnesses. Keep your beard. Ask questions. Have fun. And relax, you won't be the first to do it and you won't be the last.

Regrds,

felix a (David P)

StifflersErSlayersBrother

Just thinking also how hypocritical it is for brothers to be able to grow a mustache, but these same brothers are usually the first to put down on someone who wants to grow a beard... Whats the difference? And does anyone know why they got the Idea a mustache was ok but a beard was rebelious? You dont see too many bearded men without a mustache in the world, so if these brothers are growing a mustache, doesnt that show how much they arn't seperate from the world too??
Any thoughts?

AhHah

The mustache was a concession allowed in the Seventies in the U.S. However, even the mustache has never been whole-heartedly sanctioned. That is, those chosen for "special priviledges" such as parts on assembly programs, and even local servant recommendations in many congregations, were much more likely if one was clean shaven, although there were exceptions.

In answer to your question, there really is no logic or scriptural basis to rules (written or unwritten) in regard to what facial hair is appropriate and what facial hair would cause one to be judged as spiritually suspect. Arguments may be advanced about local bodies of elders having the right and responsibility to make a collective judgement in regard to the local standards befitting a minister. Very few organizations, however, would have the audacity to suggest that a few men would have the right to tell a congregation how to dress and groom, versus everyone exercising their own best judgement and their own conscience. One more example of the JW's emulating the Pharasaical model and rejecting the Christian freedom that replaced that oppresive model. In my opinion, the Apostle Paul attempted to enforce a Pharasaical version of Christianity that in some ways invalidates the refreshing spirit of Christian freedom.

There have been many good posts on this thread suggesting that the burden in arguments regarding grooming be placed where it belongs -- on those who would attempt to dictate standards. On what basis? The beard is unsettling to many because it is an outward sign of independent thinking, which, as I said above, is the greatest threat to the survival of cults.

Bendrr

I always read with interest when the question of beards comes up. Growing up in a conservative witness family in the 70's I was also taught that a beard is a sign of "rebellion".
I may be mistaken, but isn't there a scripture in the old testament that directs men NOT to shave their beards?
Someone mentioned in an earlier post that some companies also prohibit facial hair. Yes, that is certainly true. Many "worldly" businesses have dress codes that prohibit beards and goatees, some even prohibit mustaches. There are also businesses that still won't hire a man with long hair. Western Auto was one of those. I had to cut my ponytail off, there was no option to tuck it under my hat.
I have been "worldly" for almost 10 years now, and have never once heard one single remark from a "worldly" person about beards. I have even mentioned this to my manager at work, who wears a neatly trimmed beard and looks much better with it than without, and he was incredulous that someone would think he was a rebel because he wears a beard.
I wonder if we will ever see a QFR on the subject?
mike.

Skimmer

If you have a beard and some elder or other WTBTS automaton gives you a hard time, try one or more of the following:

1. Say "I'm waiting on Jehovah to provide me with a free razor."

2. Tell them "I'm waiting on the organization to get its collective head out of its collective rectum."

3. Mention that the beard was shaven off at the end of the Hirsute Times, but it was a spiritual shaving and so was invisible to the worldly.

4. Say that this generation will by no means pass away until you get a shave.

5. Tell them that only Jehovah knows the day and the hour of your next shave; also, that you know the year but will keep it private in order not to raise expectations.

6. Offer to shave as soon as some householder trades you a brand new, high-end electric shaver for a two month old _Watchtower_.

7. Ask them if they've made any recent financial contributions to the World Wide Work of Barber Supplies.

8. Tell them that your beard is unlikely to stumble anyone until it gets to be about two meters long.

9. [Deleted: crude comment comparing the neatness of your beard with the PO's wife's pubic hair.]

10. Say that you often cut yourself when shaving and that you want to abstain from blood.

Bonus: Show them a picture of C. T. Russell.

StifflersErSlayersBrother

LOL, thats great man... Just might use somea those

StifflersErSlayersBrother

Welp, tonights my first meeting after first making this thread. Lil fuzzier now too. Just wanted to thank all yall for the help, and Im just gonna stick to questioning everything.. :)>

Amazing

Hi Stiffler: Chucky Taze Russell wore a beard as did Jesus Christ. Rutherford and his buds wanted to look more like the business world and military after WWI, and took to a clean shaven look. That remained until the 1960s when Hippies brought beards back into the culture. Hippies were demonized by the Society due to their loose lifestyle and drug abuse. So, the beard became the symbol of the 'world' and was not acceptable for JWs who would be used in positions of service or at the doors.

The Society has never overcome this standard, though beards have become common place among business and professional people. But, they finally relaxed some on the mustache. I recall how the standard to determine this was to look at Awake! and Watchtower pictures and copy their style. Eventually a mustache or two popped up, but beards have yet to be accepted. I imagine when all the old guard dies off that the Society might relax on this some.

After I walked away, but before my DA, I went to a couple of meetings with a full beard - and did it present some shocks ... Elder, Anointed, and all that puke - wearing a beard! How could this be? - some said. - Amazing

Escargot

Funny, If Brother Russell came back today, he would not qualify for any special service! From what I have heard, The Judge did not want to look like the followers of Russell, so he forbade beards. The Judge could then “spot” any Russell supporters quickly. He really cleaned house of all of Russell’s holdouts.

Erasmus (1520 AD): "If we want truth, every person ought to be free to speak what they think without fear."

URGENT , Got meeting tonight(Beards)

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