without God what would humanity do? (page 4)

Deputy Dog

Bad behavior generally, is anything that disturbs the order and control of society.

So if the world becomes over populated murder will be a good thing?

I guess by your statement you believe gay marriage is a bad thing.

ellderwho

then it follows that god is the author of civil law. ; That is the answer you wanted, wasn't it? ;

No its not. Lets build this thing without God.

Obviously, whoever has the power decides what is and isn't bad behavior.

The question is "without God what would humanity do?" Lets get rid of God and the Ten comandments for a moment, according to your premise man will have made laws unto himself.

Why cant I do the same? Whose to say I cant make a self indulgent form of laws that suit my own interests or those of my kind. What if I feel that the ones with power are totally wrong with their government of my moral behavior.

Other 'bad behaviors' like witholding of the paying of taxes, for instance, could lead to large upheavals if they were allowed to spread

Do you think that the rich and powerful enjoy paying taxes? Arent they the ones that could change this bad behavior into good behavior?

Throughout the whole process, self interests of the various groups ;are the strongest forces behind the formation of civil law.

Here's another example, self interest groups as you say are the strongest forces behind civil law. Who left this group judge and jury? I personally do not want to listen to them because I can make my own laws just like them. Im sure I can find plenty of people interested in making public nudity acceptable. Or public urination acceptable. The list goes own.

Narkissos

ellderwho,

You don't seem to realise that nobody, even the closest to an "absolute monarch," can do just as he pleases. That is, as long as he is not alone and has somebody else in front of him, even as "subjects" to rule over. He can only exact up to the breaking point of revolt -- when submission appears worse than death to the subjects.

Now in the real world there are countless forces running and working against each other. Laws and institutions are the unstable product of their common and antagonistic operation. Their shape is the exact result of power struggle and negotiation between all actors at a given time.

If "God" designed them, he designed them as he designed riverbeds for rivers and vice versa.

There is no metaphysics.

ellderwho

Nark,

So whats your point? Forget about God as the thread suggest. Make these moral laws originate from the apes, or whatever Godless begining you choose.

Narkissos

ellderwho,

My reply was to your previous post, especially:

Why cant I do the same? Whose to say I cant make a self indulgent form of laws that suit my own interests or those of my kind. What if I feel that the ones with power are totally wrong with their government of my moral behavior.

You can't do the same because you are not alone, and your power to make the rules to suit your interests depends on where you stand in the general power struggle. Try it someday.

Satanus

Elderwho

Perhaps you need to prove that your god is the source of civil law. Your efforts here have failed in that respect. Maybe a new thread?

S

Deputy Dog

Satanus

Your efforts here have failed in that respect.

If you read the title of the thread, it looks more like the burden is on you. It seems that your efforts are the ones that have failed.

Ew, like myself would like to know how you get your concepts of right & wrong, good & evil, from nothing ("without God").

D Dog

DanTheMan

Ew, like myself would like to know how you get your concepts of right & wrong, good & evil, from nothing ("without God").

A false dilemma

Satanus

DD

If you read the title of the thread, it looks more like the burden is on you. ; It seems that your efforts are the ones ;that have failed.

While i did not go into a lot of detail, i described the history of civil law enough to show that it is not from god.

Ew, like myself would like to know how you get your concepts of right & wrong, good & evil, from nothing ("without God").

I got them from my parents, my religion (the wt corp), school teachers, and to an extent from peers. God was curiously missing in the implanting of my ideas of right and wrong.

S

ellderwho

Why cant I do the same? Whose to say I cant make a self indulgent form of laws that suit my own interests or those of my kind. What if I feel that the ones with power are totally wrong with their government of my moral behavior.
You can't do the same because you are not alone, and your power to make the rules to suit your interests ;depends on where you stand in the general power struggle. Try it someday.

Whoa! wait a tic. Nark, lets get out of the box shall we? Do ya think I might be playing devils advocate here? Jeese!

Elderwho
Perhaps you need to prove that your god is the source of civil law. ;

Where in the thread did I introduce God as the source of civil law. Perhaps you need to answer the question re: "hardwired helpfulness" in individuals, and there inability to display such qualities. Even though they are pre-disposed to act accordingly.

Ew, like myself would like to know how you get your concepts of right & wrong, good & evil, from nothing ("without God").
A false dilemma

Won't you clear this up then?

without God what would humanity do?

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