All I know is I can't wait to read Max's book!
More Bethelite Table Crumbs Please!
by MadApostate 86 Replies latest jw friends
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Pork Chop
Yeah Max, if you need a proof reader I'm available.
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Sam Beli
Hi Hillary_S
Thank you for the kind greeting. Your points are well taken. I used the word “seem” for the very reason that I do not know for sure, but the perception could be there and perception is reality to many. While I definitely do not agree with all that MadA said and especially the manner in which he said it, he nevertheless did have a few valid observations, I thought. Had I known just how vicious this thread would become, I probably would not have said a word.
My words were in no way intended for Ms. Anderson. I know all too well that going public can bring a boat load of trouble and she is to be commended for her every effort in our cause as are Seeker, LE, Amazing, Max, Alan, Norm, Jan, Kent and a host of others. The risk in naming individuals is that we can not begin to name all that make great sacrifices toward the cause of freedom from JWism. Most of us have very little idea of the pain that the rest of us have and continue to endure as a result of our JW experience.
Not you, H_S, but some who commented later, apparently lumped me in with MadA, because they directed their comments to us both. First of all, I never use four letter words on this board, and certainly not the particular four letter word that he used. I NEVER use that word. I think that it has no place in anyone’s vocabulary, but that is my personal preference (I come from a generation that didn’t even think that word, let alone use it).
Secondly, I have great respect for many here who have stuck their necks out to accomplish much good in the fight against the totalitarianism that is the WTS. Many, including me, have fought injustice in the JW world and have fought to save family and friends. We have won some, but there have been many battles lost and we have scars for our trouble.
Let’s not scar each other here. If my earlier words offended anyone, I am sorry. Please accept my apology. I am tired of battle and I wish to save what strength I have for more important battles, battles for freedom of my family and my own personal freedom to think as I wish without the guilt that my former JW life imposed.
We have a much more important battles for the minds of millions of enslaved people within the JW world. We need each other. We can draw strength form our mutual expressions of kindness, knowledge, courage and love. Love of freedom, freedom form guilt, freedom from the drudgery of meeting after meeting, freedom from field service that we did not have our heart in, freedom to find our own relationship with our God in what ever form that takes, freedom from the need to answer to any human for what we think, where we are on Sunday morning, and on and on and on…
Freedom to love each other. It is love that conquers all.
Sam Beli
PS Hillary, I do not have a picture of myself on the web. Cary’s was the closest that I could find
I have seen all the works which have been done under the sun, and behold, all is vanity and striving after wind. What is crooked cannot be straightened and what is lacking cannot be counted. Solomon
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Eusebius Hieronymus
Amnesian, I missed your point entirely and I extend my apologies and deep regrets. Please forgive me for that.
I lumped your comments in with the crapload of previous nonsense.
There are lots of hurting people here, I thought I was defending some good people who are getting beaten unfairly. This has become a very sick thread.
I wish I could edit the hurt as easy as I can edit my remarks above.
Those who know Max know that was an attempt at wry humor about an autographed copy of his book BTW. That's not his style. He is being urged to write that book finally, however. This isn't a good forum.
Jerry
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Seeker
Sam Beli,
Thanks for the kind words about me, but I deserve no credit in this particular matter. I am a bystander like so many. It is only because of some long-standing friendships made over the years online (and the fact that I know how to keep a confidence when asked of me) that I even found out about these matters relating to child abuse within the organization. But now virtually everything I heard in confidence has been posted here over the past few months. I'm just watching from the sidelines like everyone else now.
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Sam Beli
Hi Seeker,
My words were meant as a general comment on the fight we wage for the souls trapped in JWism. You have been one of my favorite posters here and on the old H2O. Your balanced comments have made you a pillar among the regulars here. I am not saying this for any other reason than that it is the truth. I listed several excellent posters, IMHO, but by no means was it meant to be an exhaustive list.
I can by no means read all that is posted here, but I always try to read what you have to say. Your humility helps it to go down easily. Thank you for your tireless efforts here.
Sam Beli
I have seen all the works which have been done under the sun, and behold, all is vanity and striving after wind. What is crooked cannot be straightened and what is lacking cannot be counted. Solomon
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Prisca
When I saw this thread escalating into yet another hostile verbal exchange, I declined to be part of this thread, until I read Sam's words:
We have a much more important battles for the minds of millions of enslaved people within the JW world. We need each other. We can draw strength form our mutual expressions of kindness, knowledge, courage and love. Love of freedom, freedom form guilt, ...freedom to find our own relationship with our God in what ever form that takes, freedom from the need to answer to any human for what we think, where we are on Sunday morning, and on and on and on…
Freedom to love each other. It is love that conquers all.
When egos overshadow reason, people (posters) can get hurt, and many bad feelings result. It isn't pleasant for those who read these threads, seeing an honest question becoming a testerone free-for-all.
I feel MadApostate had some valid points, even though I don't agree with some of his choice words. There is are many "cliques" on this DB, and "those in the know" is just one one of them.
I think the real test of whether this clique feels they are above the rest of us will come if/when the time comes that there is no need for secrecy, and they continue to be secretive.
Encouragment is what we all need. To give it, and to receive it.
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MadApostate
The way that Max's groupies have been able to twist the intent and meaning of my words in this thread to paint such in the most negative light possible, while twisting Max's words so as to paint him in the most positive light possible, probably has the boys in Legal and particlarly the boys in Writing deeply regretting that they didn't keep you bunch in the Org handy for the next time they need to DF a high profile B'ite.
This DB resembles the Org so closely, and Max and his groupies resemble the Org hierarchy so closely (we have here the MSs, the Elders, the COs, the DOs, and even the GB, as well as the suck-up wanna-bes below each level) that anyone with an ounce of objectivity left is probably puking his guts out.
Thanks for the entertainment.
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Kent
Mad,
I did support your first idea, with some doubts. Since then you've been ramblin' on, provilng Larc's warnings/musings to be extremely valid.Last you said:
The way that Max's groupies have been able to twist the intent and meaning of my words in this thread to paint such in the most negative light possible, while twisting Max's words so as to paint him in the most positive light possible, probably has the boys in Legal and particlarly the boys in Writing deeply regretting that they didn't keep you bunch in the Org handy for the next time they need to DF a high profile B'ite.
If someone defend Max, they are his "groupies", and the people who defend me ar "groupies" as well. You claim most of the posters on this board is deliberately twisting the truth, lying on purpose, to make some people look "better" than they are.
That makes you, in my book, an asshole. You're arrogant, and you claim to have more knowledge than the rest of us as to law, and the ones that doesn't live up to "your standards" are more or less morons. Exactly the same you accuse others of.
You're double standards are really interesting. I still agree with some of what you said in the FIRST post in this thread - but after that you've proved to be someone I wouldn't trust if I could ever avoid it. It would be a choise between famine and colera!
Dino said:
Like it or not, Max is one of the elder statesman on this board, and he doesnt deserve this treatment. Max works very hard in the war as so many do here. I personally would much rather hear of his life experiences than just about anything else. Let's give the old guy our respect.
I agree to that. Max has proved to be someone who supply valuable and accurat information. The fact that he do try to stop some info from getting to the Watchtower goons before due time, has my FULL SUPPORT!I don't know Max personally, and because of that I can't even pretend to know what he feels - or why he answers exactly as he does. But just as everyone else on this board, Max has been living in a certain way for years. Turning everything upside down over night isn't that easy - and I honestly feel lots of people should sweep before their own doorstep before being so eager to condemn others and their motives.
So, Max words himself in a way that do upset some people? So what? He makes "childish" statements like "thretening to leave the board". So what? Personally I find the last mentioned a bit silly, but so what?`I'm me, and Max is himself - and why shouldn't he be? If Max were the only one on thos DB whi ever said a "stupid" thing, I could understand the screaming - and if he was the first one to be fed-up, angry, pissed or frustrated by what's going on - I would have understood it as well. But is that the real situation?
Most whiners on this board are complaining about others not behaving according to THEIR standards, others aren't doing things the way THEY want them to do. Others are simply idiots, and should change their ways.
Lots of people seems to be in a pissing contest, who is the most popular guy here? Who has the most people supporting if someone says anything "wrong" about him? Who can brag about having "special knowledge" - and so on.
It's utter disgusting, and it's a fuckin good reason the whiners don't have - and probably will never get - any knowledge of anything before someone decides to go public!
Keep the wheels turning, Max - and let's beat the hell out of the Witchpower!
Yakki Da
Kent
I need mor BOE letters and other material. Those who can send it to me - please do! The new section will be interesting!!
Daily News On The Watchtower and the Jehovah's Witnesses:
http://watchtower.observer.org -
Anchor
<This DB resembles the Org so closely, and Max and his groupies resemble the Org hierarchy so closely (we have here the MSs, the Elders, the COs, the DOs, and even the GB, as well as the suck-up wanna-bes below each level) that anyone with an ounce of objectivity left is probably puking his guts out.>
Is this this time when we start saying "Yeah! He's right! Go get the pitchforks and the firebrands! We know who they are! Let's take care of them! Burning people is not a bad idea at all! What's Max's address!!"
The mob here is fickle, so fickle it is downright frightening. A poster says he re-evaluates whether or not he should be posting, someone else says he is threatening to leave the board, and yet another person reads only that and makes a judgement that the poster is childish in threatening to leave the board.
Kent, you say
<He makes "childish" statements like "thretening to leave the board". So what? Personally I find the last mentioned a bit silly, but so what?>Don't misread Kent! He is commenting on what someone ELSE might think. But someone will accept that as truth, because Kent said it. On and on it goes. Mad Apostate suckered you on that one.
Kent, I don't think he threatened to leave, he's got to be feeling pretty damned low with all the shit thrown at him because he objects to this "crumbs from the table" insult. Why the hell bother staying for such a stupid reward as having "groupies" that don't even exist? I think your own words were misused by others. Distrust won't motivate anyone to give him or you documents, and that's what's being created in this vicious thread by Mad Apostate who is clearly VICIOUS.
Prisca, you say we need encouragement. You surely did not give Max any, but you vaguely say you agree with Mad Apostate whose rude and crude ways are totally obnoxious. Now we've even got sKally thinking that material presented here has been made up!
You want to see cliques in here, you will make them up. Go back and read what larc said. Bring on the tar and feathers for me too.
Totally disgusted,
Anchor