Does Genesis Teach a Local Flood?

by JanH 36 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  JanH

  I went to the homepage for Ray Franz' Commentary press, and I found an article there promoting the idea that Genesis teaches a local flood.

  The author believes the Genesis flood actually happened, as a local event, and that an Ark actually were floating on top of local flood waters in the Mesopotamia area some thousand years ago. I recognized many arguments from a talk Carl Olof Jonsson gave at a "Christian Freedom" seminar in Sweden in, I think, 1996, so I guess that this article, too, is written by COJ. COJ also made a number of postings to H2O some time back defending a literal, local flood.

  The people associated with Commentary Press and Christian Freedom in Sweden is generally promoting a Bible-literalist form of Christianity not too remote from early Russellism, naturally without the end-time eschatology. COJ is personally a preterist (believing, eseentially, all eschatology in revelation and the synoptical apocalypse were fulfilled around 70AD), but I doubt Ray and most others share this view.

  They all seem to share the view that the Bible is literally correct, but leaves much more room for allegorical interpretation and exegetical methods trying to minimize the conflicts between science and religion. This, in a sense, is what Russell did in his days, too, when he promoted old-earth creationism (otherwise, I make no comparison between Russell and Ray/COJ!).

  Be that as it may, some time after various discussions with COJ and others on H2O, I wrote an article called "Does Genesis Teach a Local Flood?" which I have now put out on http://www.broadpark.no/~jhauglan/localflood.htm Comments welcome.

  See http://commentarypress.com/essay-flood.html for the article promoting local flood pseudo-literalism. Note that my essay is not a response to it, since I had not read it at the time. Yet, I feel that it solidly refutes the idea that a local flood as described in Genesis ever could have happened, and that the author meant to convey the idea that the flood was local.

  Thanks to Celia for posting link to Commentary Press' homepage in another thread.

  - Jan
  --
  "Doctor how can you diagnose someone with Obsessive Compulsive Disorder and then act like I had some choice about barging in here right now?" -- As Good As It Gets
• 

  patio34

  Hi Jan,

  That makes a lot of sense. Other supporting factors are that the Sumerians' writings included a flood story BEFORE the Hebrews; and that the Mesopatamia region they lived in was bordered by 2 big rivers. It was apt to flood there often.

  Pat
• 

  VM44

  I am going to keep asking this question until someone posts an answer...

  If a Great Flood covered the earth, how did the fresh water fish keep alive?

  --VM44
• 

  Nathan Natas

  Hi VM44 -

  Permit me to PRETEND to support the teaching of a global flood.

  ...I'm pretending here, so don't jump down my throat...

  Rain is fresh water. Saltwater is denser than freshwater. When rain falls on a body of water, that body of water beomes calm due to the cumulative effect of the energy interference of thousands of tiny splashes (this isn't BS - look at a lake during a storm - wave action is greatly reduced. High seas during hurricanes are the result of wind, not rain.) The reduced wave action allows stratification of the layers of water - fresh above, salt below.

  During the flood, the fresh water floated on top of the salt water and so the fresh water fish were OK. Salt water fish stayed in the saltier lower depths.

  - - - end pretense - - -

  I hereby prophesy that some version of the above would be used to answer your question, and I have never uttered a false prophecy.

  Are you a believer now?

  "I don't believe in the Trooth Fairy anymore."
• 

  kilroy

  Hi

  One of my biggest problems with a global flood is:

  If the flood broke up the land masses, how did the kangaroos and wallabees and all those idigineous creatures get to Austrailia? How did the pandas and koalas get where they needed to be to get their specialized food?

  Hey, WTS! Any explanations?

  Kilroy
• 

  Nathan Natas

  The WTB&TS has assigned "two brothers" to unravel the dreamtime mystery. Stay tuned.

  "I don't believe in the Trooth Fairy anymore."
• 

  anewperson

  In October of 2001, therefore very soon, a satellite will go up and take pictures for a predetermined mission but will beyond those will also seek to take close-ups of Mt Ararat. This was noted on http://groups.yahoo.com/group/jahchristian

  QUICKBIRD SATELLITE TO SCAN MOUNT ARARAT: On October 18, 2001, the QuickBird 2 satellite launches from Vandenberg Air Force Base in California and if all goes well will focus on objects down to nearly 20-inches (one-half meter) across and will take some images of an anomaly apparently more than 600-feet long (183 meters) upon Mount Ararat that some have speculated are remains of Noah's ark. Chuck Herring, EarthWatch spokesman, says the company will work in the image-taking as it fits in the mission plan. Also hyperspectral imagery from space offers great promise. It identifies natural and human-made materials on Earth's surface by their unique signatures of reflected light from the Sun.

  The source from which the article was condensed is:

  http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/planetearth/noahs_ark_010823-
  1.html

  So this should help some with the debate.
• 

  ballistic

  MY QUESTION IS:
  why does Gen chp2 describe in detail how there was no rain, and then go on to descibe rivers?
  Surely rain and rivers are parts of the same water cycle?

  I was too far out... and not waving but drowning - Stevie Smith
• 

  sleepy

  JanH

  Considering the various tales from around the earth do you think there ever was a giant flood , global or local that deluged the earth?
  Maybee in the very distant past?
  For instance you mention sedimentary rocks, these cover most of the earths land surface and are caused by water action.
  Is it true that fossils of sea creators have been found high upon mountain sides?
  Is there a possibility that these flood tales are based on true stories?
• 

  Nathan Natas

  Let's imagine that the satellite sends back pictures showing that something roughly the size and shape of "Noah's Ark" does sit on Mt. Ararat.

  What does that prove?

  Only that something roughly the size and shape of "Noah's Ark" sits on Mt. Ararat, little else.

  Does it prove that waters covered the earth? Does it prove that every kind of animal got crammed in there? Does it prove that Noah had blue hair?

  It's like saying the existence of Jerusalem is proof that there was a shekinah light.

  What if there's nothing there? Is any religion going to say, "oops, we goofed."?

  "I don't believe in the Trooth Fairy anymore."