Diary of an Unborn Child - switch your rational mind off for ten minutes.

by nicolaou 58 Replies latest watchtower medical

  • nicolaou
    nicolaou

    Oh dear!

    Look, the whole point of my posting that ridiculous article was, as I said in my intro', to show "an example of the worst sort of emotional argument". This isn't a debate for or against abortion just an appeal to wake up and smell putrid, falacious reasoning when it's served to you.

    The article is seriously flawed. It's manipulative, emotional and dishonest. By all means make an argument against abortion - I might even join you - just don't resort to such base tactics.

    Have we learned nothing on leaving the cult. Arguments need to be reasoned especially when the subject matter is so emotive.

  • hallelujah
    hallelujah

    funkyderek

    I used to think that an unborn child was just a potential human being. Accusing the other side of extremism is par for both pro-lifers as well as pro-choicers. The joke has been made on pro-lifers that every sperm is sacred. However the other side is not a joke - is a baby with it's head having been born into the world, but his or her body still within his mother, not a human simply because some long dead English judge said that the child was not human till it was fully separated from his/her mother and taken an independent breath? Is it alright to pierce his/her brain with a coat-hanger simply because you can't see his/her legs?

    I am today a human being. I am potentially also a human being tomorrow. I am potentially also a former human being tomorrow. Doesn't give anyone the right to murder me.

  • Star Moore
    Star Moore

    Very cool, Hallelujah...

  • kid-A
    kid-A

    Is it alright to pierce his/her brain with a coat-hanger simply because you can't see his/her legs?

    Oh, here we go!! Another pitiful attempt to cloud the argument with specious, "emotional blackmail" arguments so typical of the pro-life, religious right. Get real hallelujah, the procedure you are describing (partial birth abortion) is EXTREMELY rare and only performed in the most extreme circumstances when the mothers life is clearly in danger. The VAST MAJORITY of abortions take place within the first trimester, before any neuronal connections or brain pathways have even matured yet, excluding the possibility of thought, sentience or awareness on the part of the foetus.

    And spare us the "murder" nonsense. Another attempt from the George Bush camp to use emotionally charged words and terminology to cloud the real issues at hand. It doesnt work, except maybe in Georgia, Alabama, Tennesee and South Dakota.

  • Mary
    Mary

    I have a question: if we are "human beings" from the moment of conception, then why don't we start counting how old someone is until the day they are born? If a woman has a baby on July 1st, then the next day we would say that that baby is one day old, not 9 months and 1 day old.

  • Hellrider
    Hellrider
    I have a question: if we are "human beings" from the moment of conception, then why don't we start counting how old someone is until the day they are born? If a woman has a baby on July 1st, then the next day we would say that that baby is one day old, not 9 months and 1 day old.

    Is that supposed to be an argument for pro-choice?

    If so, that is absurd.

  • Hellrider
    Hellrider
    None of us knows the eventual personhood of an unborn human. However, if their parents are predisposed genetically toward certain diseases or deformities of a physical nature we can reliably predict a certain expectation in the child.
    Why do you imagine that does not apply to behavior? If a family such as the BACH family can produce generations of musical genius just as the offspring of a superb stallion possess the qualities of the progenitor--why exempt the human?

    Because nature is odd like that. Sometimes, children turn out to be the complete opposite of what their parents were. Scientists can`t make up their mind on this. First they believed it was genes+environment, then that genes was most important, now they`re not sure. Personally, I come from a long line of shitty, stupid, mean, evil idiots. But I turned out ok, with a uni-degree, not a wifebeater, good with my kid, good with friends. Same goes for most my siblings. Nature is funny. So, of course there pre-dispositions, but that is no argument for abortion (in the sense "weed out the trash). The question is: Even if we did know how an individual would turn out (which we can`t, not only because there are certain things that can`t be "seen" or "observed" in the genes, but because the environment is also an x-factor which we can`t fully control), would that give us the right to abort a "bad seed"? Maybe, maybe not. You should go rent a russian movie from the early 80s called "Go and See".

    Abortion is our topic here. When we destroy a fetus (for whatever reason) it is as reasonable as our reasons themselves. There is no extra layer of profundity. Why? Because it is tissue and not person.

    So you are just stating that as a fact? I whought that was the issue we were discussing (whether it is just tissue, or if it has human value).

    To be a person you must exist over a period of time with full opportunity (physical, mental and emotional) to develop personality, identity and function.
    That means that no new-born babies are humans either. Yes, they look human, but they have no more personality than what they had during the last couple of months inside the womb. Just kill em all. The point? That if we are to determine when an individual (featuses included) can be said to have personality, identity and function, then this is a 100% subjective evaluation. Subjective evaluations under the disguise of objective evaluations are the most effective tool of tyrants and murderers.
  • hallelujah
    hallelujah

    And spare us the "murder" nonsense. Another attempt from the George Bush camp to use emotionally charged words and terminology to cloud the real issues at hand. It doesnt work, except maybe in Georgia, Alabama, ;Tennesee and South Dakota.

    Hi KidA

    Actually I'm not in the George Bush camp. I marched against the war. More importantly I spent several years devoted to trying to shut down uranium mining in Australia, together with Indigenous traditional owners, peace and environment groups. Even spent a night in the cells for my trouble. So I tried to stop the uranium mining which ends up as depleted uranium atomised in Iraq. I also advise people to avoid investing in companies that invest in uranium mining or exploration.

    I'm sure you care about the unborn children being murdered by an atomic attack on their dna, even before, during, and after conception. It will affect them after birth too for that matter.

    The point of my post was that nobody can judge an unborn embryo, fetus, or child, to be subhuman or non-human.

    There is a story to tell, that of the unborn child.

  • hallelujah
    hallelujah

    I'm an anti-zionist. But in my defence I refer you to Uri Davis, who is a Jewish dissenter and proudly Jewish anti-zionist.

    Being anti-zionist that puts me squarely at odds with U.S., British, and Australian government policies, which are certainly yahwist zionist.

    See my post;

    http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/25/109800/1.ashx

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