Diary of an Unborn Child - switch your rational mind off for ten minutes.

by nicolaou 58 Replies latest watchtower medical

  • RunningMan
    RunningMan


    Right wing, left wing, propaganda, agnostic, christian..... Let's just take a moment and listen to the wise words of yet another interest group: comedians

    DAD:
    There are Jews in the world.
    There are Buddhists.
    There are Hindus and Mormons, and then
    There are those that follow Mohammed, but
    I've never been one of them.

    I'm a Roman Catholic,
    And have been since before I was born,
    And the one thing they say about Catholics is:
    They'll take you as soon as you're warm.

    You don't have to be a six-footer.
    You don't have to have a great brain.
    You don't have to have any clothes on. You're
    A Catholic the moment Dad came,

    Because

    Every sperm is sacred.
    Every sperm is great.
    If a sperm is wasted,
    God gets quite irate.

    CHILDREN:
    Every sperm is sacred.
    Every sperm is great.
    If a sperm is wasted,
    God gets quite irate.

    - Monty Python

  • LDH
    LDH
    My claim in that post was that ex-dubs very often dismiss morals and ethics as important, period. Or that they almost automatically assume the opposite view (of the dub-view) in matters of ethics and moral.

    I'm just trying to figure how you got to this conclusion......

    to turn off the yellow click on the little 'eraser' next to the 'paper clip.'

  • delilah
    delilah

    Mary said,"I was watching Oprah yesterday and her show was focusing on the poor in America. The majority of these people all live through the same cycle: they were born into poverty, their fathers and mothers were alcoholics or druggies, they were sexually abused while young, they got into drugs, etc. had kids out of wedlock and raise them in the exact same environment. Abortion isn't nice but I think alot of people would be better off not having unwanted children than raising them in the living hell that so many kids are raised in."

    What about those children, who after being raised in these situations, grow up to be well adjusted adults? I mean, look at Oprah, she was raised in this same type situation. Yet she rose above it all, and she is what? The most wealthiest, or one of the most wealthiest women, and black to boot, in the world.

    Not everyone born into poor America, or Canada, stay poor.....there are plenty of success stories.

    I think abortion is a personal matter, but should never be used as birth control, or used just because someone is "poor".

  • Mary
    Mary

    Delilah said: What about those children, who after being raised in these situations, grow up to be well adjusted adults? I mean, look at Oprah, she was raised in this same type situation. Yet she rose above it all, and she is what? The most wealthiest, or one of the most wealthiest women, and black to boot, in the world.

    And how many people does this actually happen to? Statistically speaking, Oprah is the extreme exception---not the rule. The majority of these kids that grow up in this environment unfortunately stay in this environment, they have children in this environment who grow up and they have children in this environment.......It's a viscious cycle and it's very difficult to break.

    Not everyone born into poor America, or Canada, stay poor.....there are plenty of success stories. I think abortion is a personal matter, but should never be used as birth control, or used just because someone is "poor".

    Everyone has to make their own choice and it should not be used as a means of birth control, however when I see people who are not emotionally, financially or mentally capable of raising a child (like I saw on the show yesterday), when people are strung out on crack cocaine and cannot provide the basic necessities of life for children, and when they're purposely bringing that child into a totally f*cked up environment, then to me, I think these kids would have been better off had they never been born.

    I`m not sure where that "ever spern is sacred"-thing came from, but I assume it is some kind of right-wing, religious slogan.

    Actually, it's a line from a song in Monty Python's The Meaning of Life where a really broke Catholic family with twenty thousand kids start singing "Every speeeerm is saaaaacred..." when the kids ask why the parents keep having so many children that they can't afford (it's meant as a joke).

  • Sad emo
    Sad emo

    I was a mistake/accident

    Fortunately for me, abortion wasn't legalised here until a year after I was born...

  • hallelujah
    hallelujah

    If such an article prevents an abortion, and the mother gives birth, she saves her conscience and the child's life.

    I saw a documentary recently about rape victims in Bosnia. One woman aborted her child. She remains devastated. Another gave her child up to an orphanage, and some years later took him back, and now said that her son is her life.

    I am personally against abortion. Is a child not a human being because it has not yet taken a breath independantly of it's mother? To take the matter to it's ultimate conclusion, the doctrine of the common law is that an unborn baby the moment before birth is still not a human. It is one of the most conservative doctrines of the English Common Law, which was imported into both the United States and Australia from England.

  • hallelujah
    hallelujah

    Thank you Anewme

    We all were once embyros, fetuses, unborn babies in the womb.

  • hallelujah
    hallelujah

    The problem with this society is that the sacred has become profane. That which can when joined to a human egg give life is treated like cordial or an enema.

  • Narkissos
    Narkissos

    Regardless of the ethical debate, I think this is a fascinating case of how our emotions are manipulated by narration. According to the way a story is told, we can identify, or fail to identify, to any particular "character" at the storyteller's whim. And this is potentially limitless -- at least not limited to the human species. We'll weep at Bambi's mother death, applaud at the villain's punishment, be indifferent to scores of figurants falling. Narrative focus is the key. We would tremble for the fate of a cartoon chicken hero and never mind about the chicken in our plate because we were never told its story.

    There is a huge gap between our cultural and biological views of what a fetus or even a child is, and imo this is unavoidable. It cannot mean the same thing, for instance, from a happy expectant mother's standpoint and from the perspective of the demographical planners in China. Heartbreaking as it may be, both viewpoints are vital.

  • Terry
    Terry

    Life is a concept when it is detached from context.

    This is how we get fooled. This is how we confuse ourselves, our thinking and our conclusions.

    Each time we encounter a concept we clearly have to stop and make certain we are precise about the context before we engage in rational analysis or our inferences will bleed over into crossed-definitions.

    Here is an example of mixing our concepts with our contexts.

    1.A package of seeds for our vegetable garden.

    2.A steaming plate of delicious vegetables.

    Ask yourself the following question: "If I eat a package of seeds is it the same as eating a steaming plate of delicious vegetables?"

    Answer: Of course not!

    Why?

    Because a chain of processes has not taken place which render the seed into a meal.

    1.Planting the seeds in carefully prepared soil. (Planting in the right season and with enough sunlight, etc.)

    2.Constant maintenance of the garden (removing insects, weeds, watering, nutrifying the soil, etc.)

    3. Harvesting the vegetables, cleaning, washing and pre-meal preparations.

    4.Steaming the veggies and adding seasoning.

    A potential is not the same as an actual. Treating a potential and an actual as identical is illogical.

    An embryo is a potential human being in the same way a carrot seed is a potential meal.

    It is dishonest to use language and terminology which applies to actual things when only discussing potentials.

    It is the habit and custom of propagandists deliberately to mix the two for their own agenda.

    No woman ever had a child in her womb. Not really.

    What a woman has in her womb at any given time is a transitional life-form which may or may not result in a viable birth.

    Once born that life is a potential person because it hasn't acquired language, mental facility and identity as yet.

    Self-hood comes gradually.

    The fact that we give names to our newborn and shower them with language that really more precisely applies to more fully developed personhood often confuses the issues surrounding childhood.

    As far as abortion is concerned. No discussion is honest when the language used in its terminology mixes the potential state of life with the actual eventual state after birth.

    The failure, inability or unwillingness of people to deal with the reality of these matters stems directly from the confusion in their own mind between the value of life per se and the actual identification of what life is in the context of its value specifically applied to an actual person.

    Meaning what?

    Life only has value SPECIFICALLY.

    The precise context makes all the difference.

    Life has no value conceptually.

    Futher, the idea that HUMAN LIFE is sacred (in the abstract) is a result of many semantic confusions. Clearly, it is necessary once again to apply specific contexts. Humanity is many things at different times. It can be beautiful at one time and place and monstrous in another. There is no such thing as __pure__humanity in and of itself. HUMAN LIFE is only as valuable as it is noble and wise and pure. The less so; the less valuable per se. An infant is potentially many wonderful things (eventually) and at that same moment many monstrous things (eventually). Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot, Sadaam, Ted Bundy were all cuddly infants once. Had they been aborted can the world collectively say it would have been an awful loss?

    Clear thinking requires precision of context, definition and separation of potential and actual.

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