by nicolaou 58 Replies latest watchtower medical
Even if it was copyrighted, I have a feeling the author would not mind the Awake! spreading her message.
Note that the entire "diary" takes place within the first trimester. That is when most miscarriages occur, and the average risk of miscarriage is 20%. That's 1 in 5 pregnanices. It thus occurs at a far greater proportion than abortions. The "diary" could easily be a story about a miscarriage (aka spontaneous abortion). "My mother drank too much coffee and killed me."
You know, even after leaving JWs, I always said, "I could never get an abortion, kill my own child." BUT...
Then I was in this condom-breaking situation, and I find myself sitting in the waiting room of the campus medical office, and waiting for my urine test to come back, cause my period is late. The test took longer than expected, they said I drank too much water, the test was no good, had to go get the blood test (to test for pregnancy).
During the long wait, I made a very firm decision that I WOULD get an abortion if it's a positive test. I had JUST moved out 2 months prior, had JUST gotten a housing scholarship plus 100% tuition paid. I just didnt' want to hear "I told you so" for the rest of my life. I was so not ready for a kid. The boyfriend was okay, but NOT "father-of-my-baby" material.
Now, 6 years later, if I got prego, I would keep the kid, or put it up for adoption, not get an abortion, just because I somehow think it's the right thing to do. Even now, I guess I could say I'm leaning back to pro-life, for my own personal opinion.
But when you are in the situation, you never know what you will decide to do. So try not to judge.
howdy,
I think that arguments about whether it is logical or real to give a foetus conscious thought miss the point of the piece. As Scully says it is meant to invoke an emotional response.
But I differ from Scully, in that I think that it is obviously meant to address "standard" abortion situations, the majority of cases, when the pregnancy is not the result of rape or incest or in undesirable socio-economic circumstances. It is a piece written specifically with a narrow purpose in mind and as such it does a brilliant job.
The "diary" is supposed to make us sympathetic to the unborn child, thousands of which humankind are killing each year. Whether you believe that is right or wrong - the diary is touching, beautiful and sad.
As a father of a beautiful three-year old girl, who is the light of my life, I thank God that her mother chose to have her and consider it unfair that I could only "give my two cents" but not actually make such a decision in part.
The diary isn't about the reality of what a foetus thinks or actually experiences. It is about the beauty and joy of living and hoping for a happy life in the future. It is about the mother (not the helpless unborn child) who has the power in this situation to fulfill that hope or to end it.
-Eduardo
Leolaia,
I'm sure the author wants her message spread. That's why she has a contract with a publishing house. It's the publishing house that holds the copyright. They won't appreciate being 'out' money. Let's see, how many Awake! were printed each issue for that year?
I am surprised at how many JWs, once they are deprogrammed, take the exact opposite stance in all matters of values, morals and ethics. Once they aren`t dubs anymore, they just view everything that has to do with morals and ethics as metaphysical garbage.
WTF? Could you cite your sources? The "exact opposite" assumes that the "exact opposite" is wrong. Are you implying that the JW stance on issues is correct? You may want to re-word your thoughts. There is a lot of grey area here. Give us credit for being able to THINK issues through and taking a stance, no matter if it is the 'exact opposite.'
when you are in the situation, you never know what you will decide to do. ; So try not to judge.
The Good Girl,
You made a good decision. Deciding to continue a pregnancy is a life altering decision. Your decision was right for you.
Lisa
the diary is touching, beautiful and sad.
Well, The three words I was thinking of are pathetic, sophomoric and fear tactic. Wait that's 4.
LDH,
From my first readings on this site, you have always struck me as being logical, and able to express your thoughts clearly. 99% of the time, I feel almost exactly what you write.
That is definitely the case here. It's sad that so many people can't accept that what's "right" for them may not be "right" for someone else, and no one should judge another in those situations.
I look at Catholicism as a good example. For the true Catholic, birth control is the same as abortion, because it stops the possibility of life. The egg and the sperm are deliberately denied the chance to connect, and that is looked upon as terminating a life. I believe most of those on this board who are "anti abortion" DON'T look upon birth control as the same thing, but do they understand that to Catholics it is? So, does that mean these anti abortionists are guilty of abortion? Yes, in the eyes of the Pope and his followers it does.
So, will these people now stop using birth control? Somehow I doubt it.
Long message to ask, again, that people allow others to have a differing view, and try to understand that it doesn't make them right or wrong.
Happyout - whose opinion of abortion is not the issue here, and therefore hasn't been stated
The diary isn't about the reality of what a foetus thinks or actually experiences. It is about the beauty and joy of living and hoping for a happy life in the future.
Nonsense. It is nothing more than a pro-life propaganda piece using emotional manipulation to try to convince gullible people that a foetus is capable of free thought and sentience, which obviously is not
the case. For all the so-called "thousands" of foetuses aborted every year, I wonder how many millions of babies are born on this planet, to helpless, manipulated women who are then abandoned by the "fathers"
and left in abject poverty and hopelessness, raising a child in destitution, misery, poverty and hunger. How many of these children then grow up into criminals and other social deviants simply because they forced
into existence by careless adults who didnt want them in the first place? In many circumstances, abortion is the only logical choice both for the benefit of the mother, society at large, and saving an unwanted and
unloved child into a forced and miserable existence. And please, the adoption argument is just silly. There are hundreds of thousands of miserable babies the whole world over forced to live in overcrowded, horrible
orphanages. To argue "life" at any cost is just plain nonsense and stems from the ludicrous position that somehow "human" life is the supreme form of existence on the planet, which is absurd. ALL children should
WANTED.....not forced into a miserable existence by holier than thou anti-abortion crusaders.
But on the other hand, the featus has rights to. It`s not just a "germ" or a "burger", it is the "seed of life", a tiny creature with enormous potential.
Do you feel the same way about every sperm as well? Yes, every unborn child has "enormous potential" in theory, but take a look at the plight of so many kids that were unwanted pregancies. They grown up in dysfunctional homes, they grow up in poverty, they're sexually, physically and emotionally abused and guess what happens to alot of them? They grow up and they begin the cycle once again: they have unwanted children who grow up in poverty, etc. etc.
I was watching Oprah yesterday and her show was focusing on the poor in America. The majority of these people all live through the same cycle: they were born into poverty, their fathers and mothers were alcoholics or druggies, they were sexually abused while young, they got into drugs, etc. had kids out of wedlock and raise them in the exact same environment. Abortion isn't nice but I think alot of people would be better off not having unwanted children than raising them in the living hell that so many kids are raised in.
I remember well the article. it was powerful then, and still powerful now. I am still anti abortion , in principle. But I do recognize that I am a man who has never had to face such a dilemma.
Life is life , and should not be discarded lightly. It is true that this item is 100% emotion and zero rational thinking. it is a bit like Walt Disneys film where Bambi's mother is killed- a real tear jerker but without any reasoning.
But when you are in the situation, you never know what you will decide to do. So try not to judge. | |
I am surprised at how many JWs, once they are deprogrammed, take the exact opposite stance in all matters of values, morals and ethics. Once they aren`t dubs anymore, they just view everything that has to do with morals and ethics as metaphysical garbage.WTF? Could you cite your sources? The "exact opposite" assumes that the "exact opposite" is wrong. Are you implying that the JW stance on issues is correct? You may want to re-word your thoughts. There is a lot of grey area here. Give us credit for being able to THINK issues through and taking a stance, no matter if it is the 'exact opposite.'
Did I imply that this was something I had "data" on, or that this is an issue in which data-collection or "sources" is necessary? Obviously, the first sentence in that quote was an expression of my impressions on this situation. And when you write: "The exact opposite assumes that the exact opposite is wrong"...could you please explain the logic in that? I never said that all of the JWs views on morals and ethics are right. In fact,my view is that most of their ethical and moral values are wrong, which is something that should be evident to anyone that has ever read my posts. My claim in that post was that ex-dubs very often dismiss morals and ethics as important, period. Or that they almost automatically assume the opposite view (of the dub-view) in matters of ethics and moral. And I am perfectly aware that there is a lot of grey area here. In my post, I wrote: "I don`t even believe in God, but I still believe in ethics: Something is right, and something is wrong. And then there are all these things that are somewhere inbetween. I believe abortion is one of those things "inbetween". "
Of course not. Tell me, why is it that when someone express a politically un-correct view, everyone automaticall assumes that they are an abominable, right-wing,nutcase evangelist christian? I`m not sure where that "ever spern is sacred"-thing came from, but I assume it is some kind of right-wing, religious slogan. Well anyway, those people have misunderstood completely, and I would prefer not to have that label put on me. I`m an agnostic, thank you. Frankly, using a comment like that: "Do you feel the same way about every sperm cell as well", is an insult to my intelligence, but more importantly, it is an insult to the intelligence of the person who wrote it in the first place.But on the other hand, the featus has rights to. It`s not just a "germ" or a "burger", it is the "seed of life", a tiny creature with enormous potential.Do you feel the same way about every sperm as well
Now, how do I turn of this yellow crap, argh!!!
