LET'S MAKE A LITTLE WAGER

by You Know 536 Replies latest jw friends

  • cellomould
    cellomould

    Well, I must agree that there is a bottom line here....

    in fact, I read YK's entire post, not just the bottom line. I am so proud of myself.

    Well, You Know, do you have any positive things to say about this whole 'predicament' then?

    Do you think that anyone has learned a lesson, or will it require greater stimuli to wake the masses, so to speak?

    To take a specific example: How is the US-centric paradigm faring in the wake of 911?

    --Will eruption of tensions such as those in India-Pakistan (which seemed so remote until recently) wake us up?

    --Or will we have to experience 'megadeath' all over again?

    "All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." Edmund Burke

  • logical
    logical

    Wasnt Dave Mustaine a JW or something?

  • joelbear
    joelbear

    You Know says:

    The purpose of my little wager in the first place was to call attention to the world's present precarious situation.

    Joelbear says:

    Maybe. But if your true intent was to help people you wouldn't have put in the form of a wager where someone wins and someone loses. In my experience people who wish to inform other people of important news or truly influence them in making correct life decisions take quite a different tone than you do in your posts.

    I share your concern with the world situation as I have often said. However, hollering the end is near the end is near is not going to influence anyone here either exjws or actice jw lurkers. A much better strategy for helping people, really helping people, is to point out ways for them to make the most of their life. We differ here because you point to faith in Jehovah as a way to do this and I point to a balanced view of life and what is important in life since I do not have faith in Jehovah to fix the problems of the world.

    If you truly have faith in Jehovah, great. I would suggest pointing the discussion away from yourself and towards him as a way to attract people to your faith.

    Of course, you will come back with, I don't care if I attract you stupid apostates or not. But you yourself stated that the real reason for your post was to get people to think. I dont think you can have it both ways. You cannot couch your discussion towards "stupid apostates" and hope to be taken seriously by others you hope to influence.

    A man of your faith once said, if a message is delivered without love then its like a cacaphony of noise, or words to that affect. I think those words apply to this discussion.

    Joel

  • cellomould
    cellomould

    awesome post Joel, refer once again to my post above

    YK, yes, please keep it positive and you will be in a position to help others.

    and logical, that is a good question. I really suspect he was a JW after listening to a few of the songs on the new album. but I have never read about that.

    i will look it up... will post any findings

    "All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." Edmund Burke

  • You Know
    You Know

    Cellomould:

    Well, You Know, do you have any positive things to say about this whole 'predicament' then?

    Yes, the positive thing, at least from my standpoint as one of Jehovah's Witnesses, is that Jehovah will ultimately be vindicated. The Watchtower has for quite some time at least had the basic prophetic sketch pretty well in mind to the extent that the present Anglo-American dual world power is the last empire before the great tribulation commences. So, even from that very elementary point of view it sets things in perspective as we stand on the verge of what appears to be WWIII.

    Do you think that anyone has learned a lesson, or will it require greater stimuli to wake the masses, so to speak?
    I am afraid that people are their own worst enemy, which makes the Devil's work much easier. What I mean is, that most people don't want to be bothered by world events and are willing to go to some lengths to convince themselves that nothing out of the ordinary is taking place. It is the nature of humans who are at odds with Jehovah to deny that the world is in a situation that God foretold. Jesus pointed out that the Jews in his day were hypocrites because they had the intelligence to predict the weather but somehow couldn't muster the insight to discern what Jesus' presence was all about. So, unfortunately, most people will not wake up by ordinary means.

    To take a specific example: How is the US-centric paradigm faring in the wake of 911?
    Well, for one thing, no measure of history, past, present, or future, can be taken that leaves out of account the invisible realm of angels---good and bad. There are many instances in the Bible where angels had a hand in delivering nations from calamity and at times abandoning them to destruction. And from that perspective wars are the primary means by which empire rise and fall. Without going into detail, it seems to me that America has taken the bait and plunged headlong into a trap. The brute force response to 9-11 was entirely predictable. Americans in fact demanded a war response. But, the U.S. has everything to lose and virtually nothing to gain by blowing up Afghanistan. So what if they get the new poster boy of evil? If so much as one nuke gets set off in the process of tracking down Bin Laden you are going to see a panic and financial meltdown that will make your knees buckle. That's the risk involved.

    Will eruption of tensions such as those in India-Pakistan (which seemed so remote until recently) wake us up?
    Jesus said that the tribulation would suddenly grip the entire inhabited earth to the extent that men would become "faint out of fear." The only thing that could really produce that sort of world wide instantaneous panic is a nuclear exchange on some level. It is the ultimate terror weapon. And now that you've got two nuclear powers facing off, each with their fingers on the trigger, the likelihood of them pulling the trigger is extremely high. The thing is, it doesn't even matter if both nations use restraint. Once they put their finger to the trigger they open themselves up to being sabotaged by outside forces. In other words, an agent provocateur can easily set off a conflagration by exploiting the mutual suspicion.

    At any rate, that's not the sort of situation where you want to have a spiritual awakening. In fact, it's the worst time to have an awakening because during a crisis people are very frightened and are greatly suggestible and easily manipulated by propaganda. So, no, I don't think there is going to be a mass awakening even under the worst case scenario. In fact, Jesus also foretold that during the tribulation false prophets will mislead many. That's entirely in keeping with the fact that there will be a time of great confusion and panic and apparently people will be panicked into stampeding into the arms of the false savior.

    Or will we have to experience 'mega death' all over again?
    Mega death is probably a good word for it. Keep in mind though, Nagasaki and Hiroshima notwithstanding, that the world has never really had a war where nuclear weapons and other weapons of mass destruction were used on civilian population centers. Neither has there ever been the possibility, until the recent advent of globalization, that an entire world-wide financial system could collapse instantaneously, as is now possible. So, really, until very recently, it has never been possible for the world to experience the sort of sudden global collapse and ensuing panic that the prophets long ago foretold. Not to be overlooked, is the prevalence of apostate ridiculers appearing on the scene at this critical juncture who deny any of this has any relevance to the presence of Christ that they formerly publicly declared. In that sense these are positive developments that indicate Jehovah's judgments are about to overtake the world. / You Know
  • You Know
    You Know
    However, hollering the end is near the end is near is not going to influence anyone here either exjws or actice jw lurkers.

    Jehovah's judgments have always been ridiculed, but that has never stopped Jehovah's watchmen in the past from announcing God's judgments. In the end the ridiculers are always crushed under the juggernaut of reality once the wheels are set in motion. As for my methods: My participation in this and other forums has always been on my terms and always will be as long as I use this forum. / You Know

  • refiners fire
    refiners fire

    You know. You are the toughest son of a bitch I ever saw.
    I would have had a mental breakdown after about 3 pages of this thread if I were you.
    More power to you.
    Oh...by the way...I only just read your opening post in this thread 2 minutes ago and immediately thought "He wont pay up,he'll insist it happened."
    I was right.

  • jolly_green_giant
    jolly_green_giant

    Dave Mustains mother is an active JW. I read an article where Mustain said he finds the JW to be "friendly people"

  • jolly_green_giant
    jolly_green_giant

    sorry i went off topic - that was to logical and cellomould

  • joelbear
    joelbear

    You Know says:

    My participation in this and other forums has always been on my terms and always will be as long as I use this forum.

    Joelbear says:

    I agree. You clearly live by your own rules, certainly not those of Jehovah or those who promote faith in him.

    Joel

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