by AuldSoul 42 Replies latest watchtower bible
Auld Soul, the reason the Nephilim survived the flood is that they were TALL!!!! They didn't even have to tread water.
Seriously, I think that the Jews were searching for an explanation for all these unusally tall folk, and came up with angels sleeping with human women. Perhaps the Nephilim were thought to have had some kind of mystical qualities which allowed them to survive the flood for they didn't bother to explain their survival.
bebu
read water fiasco section
Read water fiasco section
If you're interested in learning more about ancient traditions about the Nephilim, I recommend you all to acquaint yourselves with the Enochic literature. This includes most especially 1 Enoch, but also the Book of Giants (which curiously names "Gilgamesh" as one of the Nephilim), Jubilees, and later literature dependent on 1 Enoch (such as the Pseudo-Clementines). These explore many of the questions posed in this thread.
For instance, the Society claims that the demons roaming the earth are the fallen angels who sinned before the Flood. This was not what was claimed in antiquity, and in the NT itself. The demons were believed to be not the angels themselves but their offspring, the departed spirits of the Nephilim (who perished during the Flood). The fallen angels were not the demons because these were seized by Michael and his angels and bound in chains and thrown into the pits beneath the earth to await Judgment Day (cf. 1 Enoch 10:4-14). This Enochic tradition is accepted and reproduced in Jude 6 and 2 Peter 2:4 (copying Jude). The demons however were the departed spirits of the giants: "But now the giants who are born from the union of spirits and flesh shall be called evil spirits upon the earth... Evil spirits have come out of their bodies ... they will corrupt, fall, be excited, and fall upon the earth, and cause sorrow" (1 Enoch 15:8-12).
As for the giants reproducing, 1 Enoch 7:5 claims that they had sex with "birds, wild beasts, reptiles, and fish," i.e. not with people. This detail is midrashic in function, designed to explain why God had to kill off the seemingly innocent animals in the Flood. The explanation here is that the animals were not so innocent; they had been corrupted by the giants as well. Thus, fish began to have sex with birds, reptiles with mammals, etc. (cf. the Book of Giants and the haggadah), "begetting giants and monsters," the whole order of creation thus became perverted due to the actions of the fallen angels (who themselves left their natural order, cf. Jude 7 "going after strange flesh"), and the only solution in this interpretation was for God to destroy corrupted flesh with the Flood.
As for the giants reproducing, 1 Enoch 7:5 claims that they had sex with "birds, wild beasts, reptiles, and fish," i.e. not with people
Sick bastards....they could had all the pretty human babes they wanted.....and they'd rather do a damn sparrow or a trout!
Gumby
truth_about_the_truth,
Thank you for the recommendation. I read the pages available on Amazon.com.
I became pretty disenchanted when I got to the bullet on page 12 that mentions by multiplying "the altitude of the pyramid by 10 raised to the power of 9, you have 91,840,000, which, in miles, is the exact distance of the Sun from the Earth."
Obviously, many of the authors' claims I cannot feasibly check. However, this one I know to be flawed on its face. Modern day units of measurement are useless when trying to derive mathematical meaning from such an ancient object.
Problem #1: The Mile
We calculate a mile as 5,280 feet. The Romans calculated a mile at 5,000 feet. Our name for the mile came from the Romans but their measurement predates ours. So, if we apply their more ancient mile, you can readily calculate that quite a goodly number more of their miles would be required to reach the sun. But theses are not the only measures of a mile:
From Webster's 1913: "The distance called a mile varies greatly in different countries. Its length in yards is …
Austria, 8,297 yards
Brunswick, 11,816 yards
England and the United States, 1,760 yards
Hungary, 9,139 yards
Italy, 2,025 yards
Netherlands, 1,094 yards
Norway, 12,182 yards
Poland, 8,100 yards
Prussia, 8,238 yards
Spain, 1,552 yards
Sweden, 11,660 yards
Switzerland, 8,548 yards
Problem #2: The Altitude
Altitude measured in what unit of measurement? Feet? Why feet, and not inches or centimeters? Why not a hand, as though measuring the height of a horse? Or some more ancient unit, which would likely be more appropriate given the subject?
Because this one curious factoid jumped out and slapped me as being extremely flawed in the first chapter, and since I cannot check the validity of many of the authors claims without spending inordinate amounts of time doing so, I will look for the book in the local Public Library system but I will probably not buy it.
Respectfully,
AuldSoul
One interesting development of the Enochian tradition about the origin of "evil spirits" is found in the Book of Jubilees (10:5ff):
And Thou knowest how Thy Watchers , the fathers of these spirits, acted in my day: and as for these spirits which are living, imprison them and hold them fast in the place of condemnation, and let them not bring destruction on the sons of thy servant, my God; for these are malignant, and created in order to destroy . And let them not rule over the spirits of the living; for Thou alone canst exercise dominion over them. And let them not have power over the sons of the righteous from henceforth and for evermore.' And the Lord our God bade us to bind all. And the chief of the spirits, Mastema, came and said: 'Lord, Creator, let some of them remain before me, and let them harken to my voice, and do all that I shall say unto them; for if some of them are not left to me, I shall not be able to execute the power of my will on the sons of men; for these are for corruption and leading astray before my judgment, for great is the wickedness of the sons of men.' And He said: Let the tenth part of them remain before him, and let nine parts descend into the place of condemnation.
In that version, the "evil spirits" are just one tenth of the available "spirits" of the giants (note that this very conception implies some spirit/body dualism for the giants), liberally granted by God to Mastema (Satan) at his request.
As for the giants reproducing, 1 Enoch 7:5 claims that they had sex with "birds, wild beasts, reptiles, and fish," i.e. not with people
Hmm, does anyone think that maybe the dinosaurs are the result of this unholy union?
Hmm the thread is getting to the stage where Franz™ would've been a valuable contributor.
"1 Enoch 7:5 claims that they had sex with "birds, wild beasts, reptiles, and fish," i.e. not with people." Y'know, I kind of pity the poor dipshite that tried to do a cat. "Uh, Elmer, you might not want to do that. Have you ever wondered how "Shredded" Fred got his nickname?"
