Were the Nephilim sterile? Did they have offspring?

by AuldSoul 42 Replies latest watchtower bible

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  truth_about_the_truth

  Modern day units of measurement are useless when trying to derive mathematical meaning from such an ancient object.

  
  

  
  That would be true if the modern day units of measurement were randomly established at a later time. However, if the true origins of these modern day units of measurements were actually established behind the scenes by the very ones that built these monuments (superhuman entities) and introduced later, it makes perfect sense. BTW, I don't buy the story that the measurement of the foot or 12 inches originated by the size of the foot of some King of England hundreds of years ago. That is just a front story. I believe there is more too it than that. Besides, what are the odds that this is mere coincidence?

  multiplying "the altitude of the pyramid by 10 raised to the power of 9, you have 91,840,000, which, in miles, is the exact distance of the Sun from the Earth."

  There is a lot more there than meets the eye.
• 

  greendawn

  Gumby, my line of thinking was that angels don't have physical bodies and therefore sex hormones that elicit sexual desire and should therefore be indifferent to women, much like human eunuchs are. They would have no incentive for women.
  
  However having thought about it again it may be that after watching men finding great pleasure in women and sex they decided to try it out themselves to see what it is like.
  
  Even so that story raises a lot of issues why would god allow them to carry out what was clearly a very hostile and subversive action against mankind? Men and women are born in roughly equal numbers so if you add materialised angel men that means that the real men will be deprived of women and if this goes very far it will totally disrupt human society.
  
  And how would they enter human society without being suspected who are they where did they come from, would local men tolerate so many strangers coming (without women of their own) and taking their women?
  
  It sounds as an unlikely myth unless only a small number of angels were allowed to materialise.
• 

  AuldSoul

  Which mile? I cited that depending on the COUNTRY you live in it can mean quite a few different things.

  There isn't one shred of evidence we should use the English mile, the rod (another English measurement on which the English mile is based) wasn't even a possible unit of measurement at the time of the construction of the pyramids.

  So, I ask again, WHICH mile do we use?

  Shall we use the Norwegian mile which measures 12,182 English yards? If not, why not? How about the Roman mile, coming in at 5,000 feet? If not, why not?

  Besides, what are the odds that this is mere coincidence?

  Just by choosing carefully which units of measurement I apply to which aspects of various structures I can come up with similarly "remarkable" coincidences for nearly measurement you care to give me. What is highly probable is that someone spent quite a lot of time figuring out a way to make the height of this structure have significance, and that this exhaustive labor produced a seeming coincidence that is actually just a fervent wish expressed in mathematical terms.

  Also noteworthy is that the author did not include the altitude he used (to allow verification) and whether he was working from the altitude of the top or base of the structure, or chose some other point. When calculating the altitude times 10^9 knowing the figure used for altitude is fairly important for checking the math, and only a few feet difference in altitude could make a huge difference when raised to that high of a power.

  Did you know that the sea level has changed in the past 4,000 years? Guess what that means? The altitude today is not the altitude when the pyramid was constructed. Altitude is determined according to sea level or some other marker. The starting reference point and endig reference point are both missing from the author's work.

  It is a highly suspect calculation to me, and one that is not independently verifiable from the data provided. That raises doubts for me at the outset as to whether the author is drawing conclusions from fact or is engaging in flights of fancy similar to those of C.T. Russell. Given several of the claims in the audio portion you provided (which I listened to in its entirety) I am leaning toward the latter conclusion rather heavily.

  More to the point, if the relationship I have with God is the important thing, why does it matter one way or the other who built the pyramid or why?

  Respectfully,
  AuldSoul
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  AuldSoul

  Really, truth_about_the_truth, it comes down to this. I have to weigh the likelihood that there are many celestial bodies the distances to which can be mathematically arrived at by massaging numbers and mathematical relationships between various aspects of a given structure and selecting which units of measurement to use. It would have been an equally startling coincidence had it come out to the distance from Saturn to Earth, or from Alpha Centauri to Earth, or from our moon to Earth.

  That probability is very high with almost any structure. You will be able to find correlation to celestial bodies anywhere you look if you work at it long enough.

  The chances are that such a startling fact is not a fact at all. I have not been able to independently verify the authors statement. Have you? If so, please direct me to the source.

  I feel that this author's work is in many ways akin to Dan Brown's quasi-scientific treatement of his DaVinci Code, easily disprovable with just a rough scratch at the surface. If you are the author, I invite you to present the missing data so that I may be convinced. I like exploring unproven theories, I just don't like to pay for the privilege of doing so.

  Respectfully,
  AuldSoul
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  Narkissos

  Among the WT distortions of this story (which was originally not about angels but sons of gods = gods, in a polytheistic context) is the pseudo-scientifical notion of "materialisation," which is totally absent from its ancient versions afaik. In 1 Enoch 7--8 the "watchers/angels" just come down from heaven upon the top of a high mountain (the sacred meeting place of heaven and earth), Mt. Hermon (a pun on herem, "anathema, execration, curse," in reference to the conjuration of the "watchers"); the exact place is called Ardis (unless the phrase is to be read "in the time of Yared," in any case another pun on yrd = "to come down"). They don't need to change their nature or appearance; they are not "bodyless spirits" as later conceptions have it; they can come down on the earth and interplay with humans (as Yahweh does in the older stories); and, of course, have sex: the ancient stories don't bother to explain how, this is not (yet) a narrative problem.

  It happened after the sons of men had multiplied in those days, that daughters were born to them, elegant and beautiful. And when the watchers / angels, the sons of heaven, beheld them, they became enamoured of them, saying to each other, Come, let us select for ourselves wives from the progeny of men, and let us beget children. Then their leader Samyaza said to them; I fear that you may perhaps be indisposed to the performance of this enterprise; And that I alone shall suffer for so grievous a crime. But they answered him and said; We all swear; And bind ourselves by mutual execrations, that we will not change our intention, but execute our projected undertaking. Then they swore all together, and all bound themselves by mutual execrations. Their whole number was two hundred, who descended upon Ardis, which is the top of mount Armon. That mountain therefore was called Armon, because they had sworn upon it, and bound themselves by mutual execrations. (...) Then they took wives, each choosing for himself; whom they began to approach, and with whom they cohabited; teaching them sorcery, incantations, and the dividing of roots and trees. And the women conceiving brought forth giants, whose stature was each three hundred cubits. These devoured all which the labor of men produced; until it became impossible to feed them; When they turned themselves against men, in order to devour them; And began to injure birds, beasts, reptiles, and fishes, to eat their flesh one after another, and to drink their blood. Then the earth reproved the unrighteous.

  Moreover Azazyel taught men to make swords, knives, shields, breastplates, the fabrication of mirrors, and the workmanship of bracelets and ornaments, the use of paint, the beautifying of the eyebrows, the use of stones of every valuable and select kind, and all sorts of dyes, so that the world became altered. Impiety increased; fornication multiplied; and they transgressed and corrupted all their ways. Zmazarak taught all the sorcerers, and dividers of roots: Armers taught the solution of sorcery; Barkayal taught the observers of the stars, Akibeel taught signs; Tamiel taught astronomy; And Asaradel taught the motion of the moon, And men, being destroyed, cried out; and their voice reached to heaven.
• 

  greendawn

  In his letter Jude is talking about angels that left their proper place of habitation, and the WTS claims that this refers back to those sons of God that became humans to have sex with women. But Jude quotes from the
  non-recognised-as-valid apocrypha.
  
  Strange that Jude's letter was accepted as canonical and included in the Greek scriptures despite drawing heavily from the rejected apocryphal writings.
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  Narkissos

  those sons of God that became humans

  Another version of the WT "materialisation". Neither Genesis nor Enoch (or Jude for that matter) says that they became humans.
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  Leolaia

  Jude 6: " And angels who did not keep their own domain, but abandoned their proper abode, he has kept in eternal bonds under darkness for the judgment of the great day."

  1 Enoch 12:4: "Go and make known to the Watchers of heaven who have abandoned the high heaven, the holy eternal place, and have defiled themselves with women."

  1 Enoch 15:3, 7: "For what reason have you abandoned the high, holy, and eternal heaven; and slept with women and defiled yourselves with the daughters of the people....I did not make wives for you, for the proper abode of spiritual beings of heaven is heaven."

  1 Enoch 10:4-6: "Go, Raphael, and bind Asael hand and foot and throw him into the darkness....Cover up his face in order that he may not see light, in order that he may be sent into the fire on the great day of judgment."

  1 Enoch 10:11-12: "Go, Michael, and bind Shemihazah and the others with him, who have fornicated with the daughters of men, that they will die together with them in all their defilement...Bind them for seventy generations underneath the rocks of the ground until the day of their judgment and consummation, until the eternal judgment is concluded".
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  truth_about_the_truth

  Did you know that the sea level has changed in the past 4,000 years? Guess what that means? The altitude today is not the altitude when the pyramid was constructed. Altitude is determined according to sea level or some other marker. The starting reference point and endig reference point are both missing from the author's work.

  Actually, sea level has nothing to do with the altitude of the pyramid. It is basically the measurement of the base to the top. Not from sea level.

  Also when you ask which mile, what would you say if someone asked you how many miles away the nearest gas station was? Would you give them the distance in Norwegian miles? That would be highly misleading to the person asking, who in all likelihood is expecting you to give an answer in reference to the mile in it's accepted standard. If you saw my earlier post, if there were other entities responsible for establishing this standard and also for building the structures, it wouldn't be too hard to fathom.

  Anyways, the arguments you are bringing up are nowhere near the point of discussion within that book. Many books have been written on the measurements of the pyramids and you can google many websites on the pyramids of Giza and see that the data presented here is not unique to this book. These are well researched facts that have been around for a long time. If all of this is new to you, I suggest you look into it a bit.

  The reason the construction of the pyramids has anything to do with the Nephilim is because of the fact that there is much evidence that proves that they, along with their b'nai ha elohim fathers (fallen angels) were the ones that built these structures. There is a reason why they built these and they are not there merely for decoration. It has a lot to do with the Apocalypse mentioned in the book of Revelation.

  The Nephilim story in Genesis 6 is much more than fairy tale. It is more relevant in today's world than any of us can even imagine.
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  AuldSoul

  Narkissos,

  Thank you for your contributions to the topic. These excerpts are very intriguing. Also, thanks for pointing back to Leolaia's thread. I devoured it thoroughly.

  Leolaia,

  Thanks for that lengthy and very informative treatment of the subject of the Rephaim and the Titans. That was very helpful.

  Respectfully,
  AuldSoul