Nice work DF!
BTW, check out this thread: Further discusions with my dad
I DID discuss 607 with my parents many times thankyou very much!
JC ON TAPE
by SickofLies 167 Replies latest jw friends
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toreador
I am dl the files now. I can't wait.
Tor
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KW13
Well i suggest you look yourself at these points.
The society say that the 70 years ended when those in exile returned home. They do say that in 539 BCE was when Cyrus overthrew Babylon, get the Daniel Book: Chapter 3 - Page 45 - Paragraph 36 and it says
" As for Daniel, the closing verse of chapter 1 says: "Daniel continued on until the first year of Cyrus the king." History reveals that Cyrus overthrew Babylon in one night, in 539 B.C.E. Evidently owing to his reputation and stature, Daniel continued to serve in the court of Cyrus. In fact, Daniel 10:1 tells us that "in the third year of Cyrus the king of Persia," Jehovah revealed a noteworthy matter to Daniel. If he was a teenager when he was brought to Babylon in 617 B.C.E., he would have been nearly 100 years old when he received that final vision. What a long and blessed career of faithful service to Jehovah!".
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Now on the face of this the Society leave no holes. Open Jeremiah 25:12 in the New World Translation. It reads as follows.
"‘And it must occur that when seventy years have been fulfilled I shall call to account against the king of Babylon and against that nation,’ is the utterance of Jehovah, ‘their error, even against the land of the Chal·de´ans, and I will make it desolate wastes to time indefinite"Now you tell me, how does that allow for 537 as the date. From that scripture i can see the 70 years ended when the Babylonian King was called to account! 539.
539 + 70 years = 609
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SickofLies
Thanks KW, I never really knew anything about 607 before coming here. My main issue and reason for leaving was evolution (look at my origional post for more info), which you might have gathered from the audio. I'm gonna print this off and have it ready for the appeal so I'm more infomed about the subject.
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vomit
That hour was better than any public talk I have ever heard.
How they dissfellowship you in the end? -
KW13
ok but just make sure your well up on the subject. Read my topics on the matter, look for the familiar dates and everyone elses topics. ASK!!
609 = Beginning of the 70 years, but not by the destruction of Jerusalem. Read Jeremiah 25:9-12.
Verse 9: Mentions surrounding nations
Verse 12: Says the 70 years would end when the Babylonian King was called to account and that nation.
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Yes there are other scriptures but these two are the CLEAREST ones that give a final answer.
ONE real thing you may want to point out. One Elder said that the dating given from a tablet (wordly sources) and non-biblical sources don't matter so much. Personally i don't hold that against him, were allowed our own opinions but if that was the case why do the society use a Babylonian Tablet in the insight book to prove something that it doesn't?
Now open your Insight book Volume 2 at page 326. Note the picture of the tablet there. The same as the British Musuem one without a doubt.
Compare what the Society says it says and what the British Musuem says thats on it. The society can either choose to not accept a source or accept it. Who said they can lie about what it says?
Insight book: "Babylonian chronicle that tells of Nebuchadnezzar’s capturing Jerusalem, seizing the king, and appointing one of his own choice; 617 B.C.E"
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a Christian
Dan,
When you are asked the question, "Do you believe that the men who run the Watchtower Society are God's sole channel for Bible truth on the earth, Christ's 'Faithful and Discreet Slave' who he appointed over all his belongings?" rather than answering their question, I suppose you could answer their question with some of your own. You might want to try these:
How did the men who run the Watchtower Society find out that Christ had made this appointment? Did Christ tell them he did so while appearing to them in a dream or vision? Did he send an angel to deliver this news to them? If he did not, how did they find out that Christ had appointed them to be his "Faithful and Discreet Slave?"
Doesn't the parable of the faithful and discreet slave informs us that when Christ returns he himself will judge which of his servants have faithfully taken good care of all he entrusted to them? With this in mind, is it the place of Christ's slaves to proclaim themselves to be faithful? Since Jesus himself never actually told the men who run the Watchtower Society that he was then declaring them to be faithful, and that he was then appointing them over all his belongings, was it right for them to tell the whole world that Christ himself had done those things?Didn't Christ say that he will judge his slaves. Wouldn't you agree, that it would be very presumptuous for a slave to judge himself as faithful and then tell all the world that Christ himself made that judgment? Doesn't God condemn presumptuousness in the Bible? Doesn't god say in his Word that, "I shall actually cause the pride of the presumptuous ones to cease."? (Isaiah 13:11)
I'd like to hear their answers to these questions.
By the way, I would say very little in your "appeal letter." You are entitled to an appeal. So just ask for one. If you put too much in your letter there will be little need to give you much of a hearing which you can record. Your written words alone may be suffiucient for them to decide to uphold your disfellowshipping, with very little need for much of any further recordable discussion. The more you write the less you and they will talk.
Mike
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SickofLies
How did the men who run the Watchtower Society find out that Christ had made this appointment? Did Christ tell them he did so while appearing to them in a dream or vision? Did he send an angel to deliver this news to them? If he did not, how did they find out that Christ had appointed them to be his "Faithful and Discreet Slave?"
Doesn't the parable of the faithful and discreet slave informs us that when Christ returns he himself will judge which of his servants have faithfully taken good care of all he entrusted to them? With this in mind, is it the place of Christ's slaves to proclaim themselves to be faithful? Since Jesus himself never actually told the men who run the Watchtower Society that he was then declaring them to be faithful, and that he was then appointing them over all his belongings, was it right for them to tell the whole world that Christ himself had done those things?Didn't Christ say that he will judge his slaves. Wouldn't you agree, that it would be very presumptuous for a slave to judge himself as faithful and then tell all the world that Christ himself made that judgment? Doesn't God condemn presumptuousness in the Bible? Doesn't god say in his Word that, "I shall actually cause the pride of the presumptuous ones to cease."? (Isaiah 13:11)
Good points, I'm printing this off in case I need it at the committee.
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Lady Liberty
Hi Dan,
Say, you really want to see their heads spin in the appeal meeting?? Pit the Societys references that support the lengths of the Kings reigns, which when added together show 586/587 , against the Kingdom Come Appendix that supports 607! You could just print this up and hand it to them. They have to know that one question of this magnitude, that doesn't add up, HAS to lead to hundreds more!! Also, I was thinking about it..I bet one reason why that Anointed Elder got so angry was that if 607 is false, you don't have 1914. If you don't have 1914, then he isn't really appointed by God! You take all the wind out of his sails!! No power!! No control. And no domination!! Another thing I was thinking about is how many times my in-laws said, "Just ask the Elders!!". I refused, and refused. Over and over my reply to them was, "You CANNOT ask the Elders!! Because if they know you have doubts, and you don't accept what they show you to be the answer from the publications, then you will be disfellowshipped!" They scoffed and scoffed! But your case just goes to show you, that you called "ELDERS!!!" Not publishers. You wanted answers! But, like I have seen many times before,you CANNOT have questions! Especially if you have been raised in the organization like we have! That was one of the biggest "Red Flags" for me, was that you cannot have questions!! My sisters, (Mrs. Congeniality) father-in-law, who is the PO in another hall told them, "You cannot get disfellowshipped for having a question! Now if you have LOTS of questions then THAT creates a problem!" Go figure! Resting on that one question is almost all the Doctorines that make the JW religion different then all the rest!! Do they realize this?? YOU BET THEY DO!! That is the very reason why you CANNOT ask them!! Unless, you are willing to accept what ever explanation they give, regardless if it adds up or not! Anyhow.. I'm glad your in such good spirits!! I hope we take it as well as you did. I won't go down without a fight! I too, am going to hold their feet to the fire on this one!!
Sincerely,
Lady Liberty
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Quotes
SoL, you are a man after my own heart. I surreptitiously recorded my JC in Jan 1998.
I am in Toronto; one of these days we should get together and share a beer. PM me if you are interested.
I will listen to your recordings first thing tomorrow. I can't wait!
~Q