I think I did it!

by freeman 51 Replies latest jw friends

  • borgfree
    borgfree

    Detective

    I agree with your comments. when I read

    I don't care to know what they did.
    I immediately thought about a time when I was disfellowshipped. It involved a divorce and some other problems. When I was reinstated I had an occasion to talk to an elders son. During our conversation he said "I do not know what happened, and I do not want to know, but......" What that meant to me was "I already know the other side of the story, I choose to believe that side, and I do not care to know any other information"

    I was not offering the other side by the way but I guess he was just trying to let me know that he was satisfied with what he already knew.

    Borgfree

    "You can fool some of the people all of the time" especially if you are a member of the WT GB
  • dmouse
    dmouse

    Shunning is a barbaric practice. I disagree with it totally.

    thewiz, I think you raised some interesting points but they won't be popular on this board, I admire people with the courage to say what they feel in spite of this.

    IMHO, it has to be admitted that there IS scriptural precedent for shunning (..not even eating with such a man..nor saying a greeting etc). Whatever the circumstances, that is clearly shunning of a sort. I don't care, and neither will the elders, that there are a million different interpretations of that (and most) scripture. The important thing is, freeman, you broke THEIR rules and you may have to pay the price.

    Think before you do anything rash. Lashing out in anger may hurt you and your family far more than it will the WBTS.

  • gsark
    gsark

    Jesus must have known that people would come along someday and twist around his words. I believe that is why he DID so many things and that what he DID is recorded for our benefit.

    There is not ONE recorded scriptural example of shunning. In fact, Jesus, far from shunning, ATE WITH sinners and risked his LIFE to save an adulterous woman...repentance not asked for.

    As far as putting someone out from among your midst and not saying a greeting, in any case that only applies to someone actually doing a wrong thing. Not rape and molestation survivors. Not someone sufferring from severe mental illness, an abusive spouse, and whatever else. "Crimes"

    The final proof of the unscripturalness of shunning is evident in its fruitage. The more shunning that goes on in the JW, the dirtier the org has gotten. It smacks of the Devil himself, IMHO.

  • Gopher
    Gopher

    I'm nodding my head, agreeing with GSARK.

    Shunning is extremely unloving. When people breezed by me at the convention last year, did they care to know if justice was served in my case? Did they know why they were even shunning me?

    They were doing it out of FEAR. FEAR that if they associate with a shunned one, they too will become a 'shunned one'. Rules are rules, don't you know!

    1 John 4:18: "There is no fear in love, perfect love throws fear outside because fear exercises a restraint. He that is under fear has not been made perfect in love."

    The whole structure of JW's is based on fear, including their shunning practice. They 'fear' their organization, they even 'fear' each other...anyone could be an informant.

    True Christianity would motivate one through love. Love is pure, has no morbid fear in it.

    GopherWhy shouldn't truth be stranger than fiction? Fiction, after all, has to make sense.
    Mark Twain (1835-1910)

  • RedhorseWoman
    RedhorseWoman

    So, Wiz, you feel that the Society should take on the duties that should rightfully be those of parents?

    True, I didn't want my daughter to associate with those who might be a bad influence, but I hefted my responsibilities and taught her right from wrong. She made some pretty good decisions about friends, and when she occasionally did not, I expressed my disapproval.

    You, however, seem to feel that these df'd children should be judged evil simply because the WTBTS has said so? Without even knowing what they did? Perhaps they once became overcome with passion and engaged in premarital sex. Does that one incident make them evil?

    Personally, I would prefer to judge friends and acquaintances through my own experience rather than trusting others to make that decision for me or my children.

  • thewiz
    thewiz

    see how judgemental these people are. These are the people you are asking advice from. People who do not care for answers that do not fit in with their own hatreds, differences, petty arguments, pet pevs, etc.

    When I said I didn't care to know, I was meaning I didn't want to pry, to find out the juicy gossipy details, etc.

    Also
    I see posts here of, "See you later good friend.." and "we are such a friendly bunch..." "the people here are my family..." etc.

    I doubt many of these people even know each other personally. They have judged these people to be good people simply because they have a common ancestry, JWs or used-to-be JWs.

    Do you care to hear an honset evaluation? or do you just want to hear what you hope people may do, pat you on the back, "go get em'", "thata boy", and just agree with you, just because the common enemy is the WTBS & JWs?

    If gsark is referring to the "adulterous woman" of Jo 8 then he is referring to a spurious text added centuries later (how do they know? because earlier manuscripts simply do not contain the text), that virtually implies the justification of sin. Even bible scholars, who are not JWs recognize that.

    I didn't get into all the possible permutations of who you can talk to and who you can't. It would take to long to list. Ask gsark he/she seems to like to list all the possible combos.

    detective for the name your you certainly don't fit the moniker. Don't jump to conclusions so quick.

    I wasn't attempting to theorize about all the wrongs those kids MIGHT have done. How can I provide some kind of reference point to start from if I don't use some kind of example?

    But then maybe you do want your children hanging around people who will lead them down the wrong path?

    My brother went to go see my sister who is a drug addict, alcholic, whore, and whatever. He was telling her that this lifestyle was not good for her. There was some idiot (a false comforter) there who said, "how can you say that to your sister, [blah, blah, blah crap]."

    She would rather have her "friends" tell her that there's nothing wrong with drinking your life away, or other things she had to do to maintain her lifestyle. My brother and family are trying to get her off this stuff but apparently people like you keep saying there's nothing wrong with it.

    freeman -what would you rather have, someone who doesn' t give a shit about who your kids hang with or someone who is going to provide you something to think about and hopfully evaluate properly?

  • borgfree
    borgfree

    As I drove to work (where I am now) I kept remembering something Dmouse said -

    The important thing is, freeman, you broke THEIR rules and you may have to pay the price.

    It still bothers me. Isn't it supposed to be Gods rules that we are concerned with?

    Borgfree

    "You can fool some of the people all of the time" especially if you are a member of the WT GB
  • RedhorseWoman
    RedhorseWoman

    Wiz, you never answered my question. Do you believe that parents should abdicate their responsibility in teaching their children and in evaluating their association to a corporate entity?

    My brother went to go see my sister who is a drug addict, alcholic, whore, and whatever. He was telling her that this lifestyle was not good for her. There was some idiot (a false comforter) there who said, "how can you say that to your sister, [blah, blah, blah crap]."

    She would rather have her "friends" tell her that there's nothing wrong with drinking your life away, or other things she had to do to maintain her lifestyle. My brother and family are trying to get her off this stuff but apparently people like you keep saying there's nothing wrong with it.

    My, my how we twist things, don't we, Wiz? Your brother was doing a good thing. He was getting actively involved in trying to help your sister. According to the WTBTS, he should refuse to speak with her or associate with her. Forget about helping her....she is evil....and only by ignoring her will she see the error of her ways and become righteous......BULLCRAP!!! And you just stated that yourself.

    If the children Borgfree is referring to had done something wrong, I still maintain that it would be up to him as the parent to determine whether or not his children should associate with them.

    Children frequently make mistakes....that does not make them evil. In any event, it is up to Borgfree--NOT the elders--to determine whether or not they are good or bad influences for his children.

  • heathen
    heathen

    I seem to always see people claim that shunning is
    unscriptual so I went and found it in my bible 1cor.5:11
    is one that supports shunning and I know I read others
    but I think that one pretty much says it all .even
    though they use there own practice of reinstating
    there is no mention of a six month period to repent from
    wrong doing.You also didn't mention whether your boys
    friend was a baptized christian or not .In my opinion
    they can't da or df someone that is not officially a
    member of the church.Since no one else wants to hear
    my opinion you are stuck with it.[>:(

  • bboyneko 2
    bboyneko 2

    You are right, 1 corinthians does indeed support shunning.

    1 Corinthians 5
    1
    It is actually reported that there is sexual immorality among you, and of a kind that does not occur even among pagans: A man has his father's wife.
    2
    And you are proud! Shouldn't you rather have been filled with grief and have put out of your fellowship the man who did this?
    ------------------------

    4
    When you are assembled in the name of our Lord Jesus and I am with you in spirit, and the power of our Lord Jesus is present,
    5
    hand this man over to Satan, so that the sinful nature[1] may be destroyed and his spirit saved on the day of the Lord.

    This second set is interesting because the word used for nature, in the phrase 'sinful nature' means literally his physical body;his flesh. So is the writer here saying kill him so that he will be saved?

    12
    What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside?
    13
    God will judge those outside. "Expel the wicked man from among you."

    How does this contrast with jesus statments of 'he who is without sin cast the first stone'

    It's interesting all this shunning business was established only after he died.

    -Dan

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