Who would have the "Upper Hand" an Elder or a leader of another Religion?

by JH 30 Replies latest jw friends

  • Gary1914
    Gary1914

    I believe that the elder would win, hands down.

    Not because they have the truth or because the elder knows his Bible better. It is because Jehovah's Witnesses are taught to have all the answers. We know the answer to every Biblical question there is. Because the Bible is a book that is written very vaguely and can be used to support any claim at all that a person wishes to make, we use the Bible to our advantage and make it say everything that will support our beliefs. Most leaders of Christianity when confronted with something that has been a mystery to mankind for years will admit that they do not know. No the witness, Oh, no! He hads an answer for everything and a really plausible one at that.

    We are taught week after week, meeting after meeting how to confront any objection or question that comes our way. We use our Bibles like a straight shooter and are willing and able to aim it at any one who challenges us because we know ALL the answers.

  • jws
    jws

    I remember my dad being "ambushed". On two seperate occassions, he had people he was having back-calls with. Then, one weekend, they had company. A guy who went back and forth through the Bible. I remember, because we were sitting out in the car, bored out of our skulls for 2 hours while my dad was inside in the biblical fight of his life.

    He didn't say much about the specifics. Just that the guy really knew his Bible. He told everybody about the "ringer" and apparently others had run into him too. Ironically, years later, I saw this guy on TV. There was a show about JWs. He ran some Christian group. He sold books about different cults: Jehovah's Witnesses, The Way Ministries, and others. I ordered Crisis of Conscience from him and that lead me out of the JWs. Fact is, he was well rehersed on JWs and knew what to attack them on.

    As far as the original question, I'm not sure either could "win". Each have their own versions of the Bible. Each has been translated according to religious biases. The Bible is not as cohesive as the JWs would have you think. Even in their own Bibles, you could show JWs things that will really confuse them if they stopped to think about them. That's kind of the key. Find something that the other person is not expecting and trip him up.

    The JWs have been practiced at doing this for years. They know what the Catholics believe and how to argue against that, what the Baptists believe and how to argue against that, etc. For the most part, other religions are focused on teaching their own religion, not debunking other religions. A JW would have the upper-hand in this.

    I don't give too much credit to credentials. I'm a programmer. I learned what I know now from classes in high school, from my own studies, and from playing around. I dropped out of college after only a couple of computer classes that didn't teach me anything I didn't already know. I work with people who have 4-year degrees, even masters degrees. Some of these people are clueless. Their code doesn't work or is poorly optimized. They make lots of mistakes. They just don't know what they're doing. Some schools must be too easy.

    To say some religious "official" has graduated from some semenary - big deal. It doesn't mean he knows anything. A lot of people can memorize to recite something back during a test. But they cannot think or reason or really understand it for themselves. In many ways they're like JWs. Who cares about some religious version of college? JWs sit through 5 hours of meetings a week for years and years. They read and study religious articles in their books and magazines. It's probably very similar to the indoctrination at some religous college. Yet it doesn't make them any smarter or any more correct.

    I think I'd go with the JW to "win" the debate, but still be utterly wrong. They're used to the debate. And I don't think either will change their mind.

  • candidlynuts
    candidlynuts

    i duno about pastors..but i've seen a few pentacostal women send elders packing with their ears red.

    those women know their bible and their God.. and arent afraid of vocalizing any of their beliefs.

    poor elders arent used to women talkin back to them!

  • Priest73
    Priest73

    Not to butt in here, But the question is flawed... An Elder would not be caught with just a bible. You can't understand the bible with out the Watchtower and Awake bible study aids

    (sarcasm)

  • Undecided
    Undecided

    The bible is so mystical in so many of it's passages that in order to try to understand it you have to form your own view of it's meaning. It also contradicts itself many times and changes it's commands from one book to another. There is no way to get facts that can't be challenged from the bible, if you have the knowledge to find them.

    Ken P.

  • DanTheMan
    DanTheMan

    An Evangelical or a Pentecostal debating with a JW is like a Lord of the Rings geek debating a Star Wars geek. Reality-challenged people debating the merits of the brand of reality-avoidance they prefer.

  • candidlynuts
    candidlynuts

    lol no kidding dan!

    one thing that i know is the local pentacostal churches hold workshops on how to speak to jehovahs witnesses.. so they're well armed when it comes to debating...its kind of like dr suess's north going zaks and south going zaks.

  • ellderwho
    ellderwho
    We use our Bibles like a straight shooter and are willing and able to aim it at any one who challenges us because we know ALL the answers.

    LOL, where have you been, I love debating witnesses, problem is you cant get one to engage. I mean they fake knock at my door. Its seems their just going through the dreggs of service. They dont want to put forth the effort to even have a study.

    Ive been waiting for three years. Three years of hawking my neighborhood everytime I see the Jws in their minivan I either wait at my door or tell my kids to let me know when their around.

    But guess what? Their not interested. As far as being "straight shooters" with their Bibles C'mon their soft.

    EW

  • blondie
    blondie

    Most elders like most other JWs cannot do "battle" with just the Bible. They need help from WT books, usually the Reasoning book at the door. The WTS has this concept that if you read scriptures from another book that the person at the door won't notice and won't care.

    My experience observing elders confronting a minister at the door is

    1) the elder has contempt for the minister from the get go and does not listen carefully to what they say, after all they are the leaders of Babylon the Great, the "Pharisees."

    2) the first time the elder is skillfully led into a trap with a serious of scriptures, they shut down and consider that the minister is speaking with Satan's cunning.

    3) Most elders (JWs) are profoundly ignorant of what other religions really teach, their only source being the WT publications. The WTS is always whining that people judge them by what others say, their enemies, yet the WTS does the same thing.

    4) Most elders (JWs) have only learned certain key scriptures to support WTS doctrine rather than understanding it in context.

    If a minister/priest has studied the doctrinal approach of the WTS, they will be way ahead of any JW including elders.

    Most JWs dread anyone who wants to discuss non-WTS doctrines concentrating on living forever on a paradise earth.

    Blondie

  • Victorian sky
    Victorian sky

    Interesting. My pastor would spank any JW just by focusing on what they don't have. They don't have a relationship with Jesus yet they claim to be Christians. Most are not happy yet they claim to be the happiest people on the planet. The org is blood guilty on many counts. The org is unloving. Last but not least, they don't have the freedom of the children of God. The Pastor/Priest or Christian just needs to know what they lack and how to talk to them. In my church, we have classes (taught by ex-Jws) for Christians on how to talk to JWs. We encourage them to stay away from dotrinal debate. I think that's a great distraction. When I was pioneering, I felt smug in my 'accurate knowledge'. No matter what was said at the door, I always felt as if we had the truth, we won and if we didn't, we'll win in the end. The only time I got stumped was when an 'apostate' asked me if I was truly happy. There is no quick scriptural come back for that. They don't teach you that response in the reasoning book or the kingdom ministry. Are you happy? I couldn't tell him no, I'm miserable, it's 200 degrees out here and I'm sweating at your door, I'd much rather be home with the a/c blasting and a good book. So for those here who go to a church, I encourage you to get something started that will educate Christians on how to help and talk to JWs, what they will respond to and what they won't. Who better to teach them than you?

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