In ref. to child abuse (page 6)

jw

Re: In ref. to child abuse

Post 397 of 397
since 14-Aug-02

JW,

I've been following your reasoning and I get the following impressions from your statements:

1) You too are disgusted by Child Molestors.

2) You argue JW's are no different than other religions who also must contend with molestors among their ranks.

3) You feel no pity for the perpetrators and advocate taking actions against them to protect children.

4) However, your loyalty to the Society seems to surpress all of your instincts.

5) Despite your position on sexual abuse, you admit no problem with the standing 2 witnesses rule.

6) You apparantly agree with the disfellowshipping of victims, Elders and Bethelites who have publically spoken out for changes in Society policies.

Sadly, your loyalty to this controlling organization dominates any difficulties you have with child abuse among your members and flawed policies that encourage a cover-up mentality. The Society has counted on loyalists like you to ignore anything unflattering about them. Thankfully the word has been getting out and the Society has been forced to make changes in their handling of abuse. Thankfully more JW's know to go straight to the police regardless of what their local Elders advise. Hopefully more people are not swayed by arguements (similar to yours) that reporting this demented behavior "brings reproach on Jehovah's name". All of this from the hard work and courage of people who have been expelled for doing what you are incapable of.

You asked what people here have done to affect change. The question is what have you done in your sphere of influence?

-FW

Excuse me , but you got me pegged wrong.

jw

JW I see you omitted from your list of where molestations can take place one that is a proven fact and that is the Kingdom Hall. Please add this to your list and quit trying to protect your image. I listed sites that I know of as fact.

FreeWilly

JW: Excuse me , but you got me pegged wrong.

FreeWilly

JW: Excuse me , but you got me pegged wrong.

Perhaps, but your replies show all the characteristics of a person whose sense of right and wrong has become displaced by a competing set of morals. In your case your initial reactions to wrong (molestations) are right on. However, when they begin to threaten your belief system it's clear where your priorities rest. It appear that the preservation of your religious organization comes above all, including molestation allegations.

This is not a swipe or a blanket insult. I point it out because it is this same mental disconnect that allows many who belong to similar insular groups, to act in a way they might not outside of the group. One example I'll cite is your statements regarding fellow JW's who have decided to speak out and have subsequently become disfellowshipped. You attempt to agree with their motivation, but offer a rather weak objection to their methods. You really don't say why their methods , albiet successful in causing positive changes, are nonetheless worthy of banishment exile and social scorn. But it's clear their statements erode the Society's image.
It becomes easy to understand how widespread reports of JW molestation cover-ups can take place. When a Religion, or in this case a publishing company, is put on such a lofty pedastal, people are faced with choices of conscience or allegience. Based on your responses thus far, I wonder what direction YOU would offer to: 1) A victim whose allegations, if reported, would damage the image of the congregation/organization. 2) Parents of a victim who are seeking you advice as a spiritual Elder as what to do about the abuse of their child. 3) An advocate for change whose entreaties, however noble, highlight policy flaws within "God's organization". Would you be one of the outspoken advocates who lobby for change? Would you advise Victims and Families take matters to those training and education to deal with them? Or would you hush all cries that "bring reproach on Jehovah's Organization"? Would you yeild to pressure from above to quite all non-conforming voices? It's easy for you to sit back and make snide comments about victims, advocates and people on this site in general. You do so, likely because people here represent a threat to you beliefs. It is exactly this insecurity that has caused Jehovah's Witnesses to be the topic of Investigative Journalist reports in the US, Canada, Austrailia, Germany, Denmark, England, and many more. Each independant report validate the claim that organizationally, Jehovah's Witnesses would rather protect the reputation of their Publishing Company, than protect, encourage and avenge those affected by Sexual Abuse. A sad, pathetic compromising mindset that you too show evidence of. -FW

jw

JW: Excuse me , but you got me pegged wrong. Perhaps, but your replies show all the characteristics of a person whose sense of right and wrong has become displaced by a competing set of morals. In your case your initial reactions to wrong (molestations) are right on. However, when they begin to threaten your belief system it's clear where your priorities rest. It appear that the preservation of your religious organization comes above all, including molestation allegations. This is not a swipe or a blanket insult. I point it out because it is this same mental disconnect that allows many who belong to similar insular groups, to act in a way they might not outside of the group. One example I'll cite is your statements regarding fellow JW's who have decided to speak out and have subsequently become disfellowshipped. You attempt to agree with their motivation, but offer a rather weak objection to their methods. You really don't say why their methods , albiet successful in causing positive changes, are nonetheless worthy of banishment exile and social scorn. But it's clear their statements erode the Society's image. It becomes easy to understand how widespread reports of JW molestation cover-ups can take place.
IP: RL8/N4nbCXdR8Jru	25-Apr-06 15:25 by FreeWilly: Correct formatting

I compare their methods to the Salem Witch hunt.

If they have evidence to support the allegations of child abuse, such as dna, sperm, etc..., then I might be willing to jump on their bandwagon.

jw

If you truly want to stop child abuse first start with the family , and be honest we all have a relative that is a pedophile.

I have spent the last 21 years helping adult survivors of sexual abuse. I have both personal and professional experience in this field. I really do know many families where they do not have a pedophile in the family. I certainly have enough pedophiles in my own family but families like mine are the exception, not the rule. Well I know of families in Colorado, Florida, Michigan, Mississippi, Okc, Ok., as a fact.

Lady Lee

If they have evidence to support the allegations of child abuse, such as dna, sperm, etc..., then I might be willing to jump on their bandwagon.

I know I have been pretty invisible on this thread and perhaps you just missed my earlier response to you but this comment above shows how little understanding you have regarding the issue when it comes to JWs.

When a parent or the victim goes to the elders to help them deal with a person who has abused the child, the elders will not immediate tell them to report it to the police. The child will not be taken to the doctor to get the evidence "such as dna, sperm, etc..."

The elders have their own little investigation which entails asking the accused if he did it and if he says no the elders will shrug their shoulders and say there is nothing they can do because it is one man (or woman) against the word of a child. And since there aren't two witnesses to the abuse the eldersjust tell the child and family they can do nothing but do not speak of this to others in the cong or they will be accused of gossiping and could be reproved for causing dissention within the cong.

So here is this poor child who has been abused and has had to tell her story to window washers and button salesmen. Scripture that JWs should not go outside the cong with issues regarding "brothers" will be read. She/he or the family is reminded that one should not take their "brother" to court and now she is told she can't tell anyone. Pity the poor child whose abuser is a parent. They have to go home with them knowing the abuse won't stop.

And after all this whatever evidence is washed away and the actual events have been contaminated by the elders clumsy investigation.

BlackSwan of Memphis

(edited to say:)

not playing this game with a troll who obviously does not get it

I Never tell people what happened to me, because of people like you.

FreeWilly

Based on your responses thus far, I wonder what direction YOU would offer to: 1) A victim whose allegations, if reported, would damage the image of the congregation/organization. 2) Parents of a victim who are seeking you advice as a spiritual Elder as what to do about the abuse of their child. 3) An advocate for change whose entreaties, however noble, highlight policy flaws within "God's organization". Would you be one of the outspoken advocates who lobby for change? Would you advise Victims and Families take matters to those training and education to deal with them? Or would you hush all cries that "bring reproach on Jehovah's Organization"? Would you yeild to pressure from above to quite all non-conforming voices? Would you be that Presiding Overseer who was featured on Dateline? He was asked by the prosecution to reveal the confession that a JW Child Molestor made to the Elders. The Presiding Overseer (who was advised by Society Lawyers) decided to protect the molestor by invoking a Clergy Confessional priviledge. He had a chance to help the victim, but instead decided to protect the Abuser. He witheld the confession. How sick. It's easy for you to sit back and make snide comments about victims, advocates and people on this site in general. You do so, likely because people here represent a threat to you beliefs. It is exactly this insecurity that has caused Jehovah's Witnesses to be the topic of Investigative Journalist reports in the US, Canada, Austrailia, Germany, Denmark, England, and many more. Each independant report validated the claim that organizationally, Jehovah's Witnesses would rather protect the reputation of their Publishing Company, than protect, encourage and avenge those affected by Sexual Abuse. I just don't see you jumping on any bandwagon no matter what the case. You appear way too depandant on your man made Organization to act on an obvious cut wrong. Unfortunately, with every post you reinforce the your allegience those who have covered up abuse. A sad, pathetic compromising mindset. -FW

looking_glass

Guys, why is anyone here trying to use reason. Pearls before swine. This thread was started in a combative way. When people stopped responding to the thread, the orginial poster then tried to lure people in by saying they were going to PM someone w/ private info. These are all techniques to engage people. When being argumentative does not work, act like a victim yourself. I am sorry but have I already said ... pearls before swine. What is the purpose for continuing to try and "reason", when you know full well that it will fall on deaf ears, blind eyes and a cold heart.

To those who have suffered abuse. I am so sorry for your lost innocence. I am sure it has and will continue to effect your life. May you have blessing forever more.

In ref. to child abuse

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