"I am Finally Free."

by scout575 21 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • AuldSoul
    AuldSoul

    scout575,

    How do you define "early Christianity?" I don't want to write something that will be construed by you as a reinterpretation of "early Christianity," so I will need your definition of "early Christianity" before I proceed.

    Are you aware of how little detail we have about the beliefs of early (pre-150) Christians? We know what a few men wrote, among hundreds of thousands of Christians. I'm anxious to see what you say early Christianity is, I will be expecting zero "likely" or "probably" or "it seems" references in your explanation, those are indications of your own interpretation of what Christianity is, which is what you accuse others of doing.

    Now, I don't have a problem with interpretting what Christianity is for myself. I would very much appreciate your explanation for why that would be inappropriate of me. I think it is hilarious that you want me to anchor my beliefs in 2000-year-old dogma while you allow yourself to feel free to dispense with a scientific breakthrough of the late 1800s if someone can establish to your satisfaction that there is a better way. You have the Scientific Method as an overriding principle. I have agápe as an overriding principle. Both principles are responsive to changing circumstances and changing environments, why do you think I should be stuck in the first century with application of mine and you should be allowed to bring yours forward as often as you like?

    Don't you believe in evolution?

    Respectfully,
    AuldSoul

  • scout575
    scout575

    Auld Soul: I fear that you are pushing at an open door with me. Although my posting immediately above yours, partly answers your question about how I define early Christianity, I suspect that I didn't make myself very clear in the posting that you are responding to. I don't feel that its inappropriate for you to interpret Christianity as you wish, I don't want you to anchor your beliefs in a 2000-year-old-dogma ( far from it ).

    The fact is that many Christians ( possibly most ) view the NT is the standard for Christian orthodoxy, and that any deviation from the NT is therefore heretical, and unchristian. My own belief is that the NT is a collection of writings of men who believed in a supernatural Jesus, WITHOUT any direction, oversight or inspiration by God.

  • A Paduan
    A Paduan
    Maybe the continual 'chipping away' at the Christianity revealed in the NT will eventually leave a 'Christianity' that is solely about being kind and helpful to people. As welcome as this would be, it would leave the label 'Christian', meaningless.

    I find that an odd statement -

    - I presume it is from a jw influenced philosophy ?

    The christianity that I grew up with WAS about being kind and helpful to people, such that if scripture did not support it, then you must have misinterpreted the scripture, because 'being christian' was to 'be kind and helpful' - and rather than being a "meaningless" result, it was indeed a central point of meaning in what it is to be christian.

    paduan

  • A Paduan
    A Paduan

    As I have said to some jws;

    we preach christ everyday, even if sometimes we have to use words (Francis of Assisi)

    paduan

  • jgnat
    jgnat

    Hey!

    Testimonials isn't the same as systemic study.

    I could go through the mental processes that I went through, if you like, as I re-examined my foundations and decided to stay with Christianity.

    I don't think Christianity was ever meant to be a static faith. Rather than being threatened or diluted by change, I think that a religion must re-enterpret itself to remain relevant.

  • greendawn
    greendawn

    I had no problems with Christianity though it is expected that there will be abuse in any organisation made up by humans. At the end of the day human beings do have a spiritual dimension to their existence that needs to be gratified in order for them to be whole and Christianity is the best way to do that. If ALL people really followed the gospel there would be no problems in this world.

  • Fe2O3Girl
    Fe2O3Girl

    I am always glad to hear of people finding a satisfying happy life outside the JWs.

    Sometimes that is a Christian life, sometimes an atheist life, sometimes a Wiccan life, and sometimes ex-JWs go through several cycles on the way.

    For me, the most important thing is that the final conclusion belongs completely to each individual, and is not a reaction to having been a JW, i.e. not merely an atheist because JWs believe in God.

    I don't have time for "we're real Christians", "No, WE'RE real Christians" stuff. I am afraid I keep that one reaction to JW-ish thinking.

  • EAGLE-1
    EAGLE-1

    I rather search for big foot than another &$%#@#$#@ religion

  • AuldSoul
    AuldSoul
    My own belief is that the NT is a collection of writings of men who believed in a supernatural Jesus, WITHOUT any direction, oversight or inspiration by God.

    I believe the Apostle Paul would be shocked to his toes to learn that many today believe his writings were inspired by holy spirit. I believe he would direct our attention to quite a few passages from his writings and ask us what we were thinking to come up with such an asinine idea. Then he would draw our attntion to the entity that collected together and authorized what we call "the Bible" and ask us, simply, "Do you believe the Catholic Church was inspired by God to know what is and is not part of inspired Scripture?"

    My answer to that simple question would be, "No." Others might answer differently.

    That said, I read the Bible for the value I get from it. I still find more valuable food for thought from it than from Shakespeare. But that doesn't prevent my finding nuggets of truth in Lao Tzu's writings, or the writings of Confusingus, Voltaire, Pliny, or others. However, I have yet to find another collection of writings from which I gain as much insight into life as I gain from the Bible.

    When it comes to the concept of holy spirit, I believe that once again something is being described that was very poorly understood at the time (much like the garden of Eden and the angels blocking the way back in). However, I think we may have already discovered holy spirit and labeled it as something else. Once we get to the point of manipulating it ("coaxing it" might be a better term) many miracles will no longer seem quite so miraculous (except in context of the time in history at which they occurred).

    I identify myself as a Christian because I believe that Christ was present in the flesh and sought to restore our relationship with something greater, a relationship that was lost long ago. I believe he was successful. I believe in beings that do not live on earth (angels, etc.) and I believe that many myths and legends are rooted in fact expressed in terms humans used to explain the inexplicable. I do not believe that is far-fetched or fanciful from an athropological standpoint. From an archeological standpoint, there is evidence of technology that we cannot replicate today present on earth some 4,000-5,000 years ago—not in just one location, but on continents separated by raging oceans of water—popping up nearly simultaneously.

    Civilizations emerging simultaneously from many parts of the world, advanced technology spreading at blinding speeds before there was trans-oceanic communication methods. Irrigation principles, terraced farming, waste management, large stone structures built from VERY large stones quarried in distant locations, starcharting, timekeeping, measuring of season cycles—all popping up from seemingly nowhere.

    Something happened 4,000-5,000 years ago that surged humanity forward, some Promethean moment when we were gifted knowledge that was hidden from us before. Much of the technology was lost again within 1,000 years. Technology does not arise quickly from nothing. This argues strongly in favor of an external source for such knowledge.

    Respectfully,
    AuldSoul

  • mdb
    mdb
    I'm still lazily searching (as I'm not in any big hurry) for what I believe.

    merfi,

    If you knew you were going to die in a car accident tomorrow, would you then be in a big hurry? I've had a number of people I know and love be taken away from this life within the past 3 to 6 months. One by cancer, one in a head-on collision, and one farm accident last week. They didn't think their time on earth was coming to an end. One of them was 21 years old. Our time is short, yours might be hours or days. No rush? Are you certain of your salvation? Are you confident in your eternal destiny? I am. Jesus still died for your sins - whether you believe the truth or deny it.

    You don't know how much time you have left in this life. I wouldn't be so lazy.

    Respectfully.

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