OK believers, time to put up or shut up... (page 6)

Double Edge

Bennyk -
"For those who believe, no (further) PROOF is necessary.
For those who cannot believe, no proof is ever ENOUGH." That's heavy, dude! Pass that over here!

and I might add "For those that would ridicule others' beliefs....who give a d*mn what they believe"

Yup, the universe is god (no capitals, anywhere). As the universe is, so is 'god' - creation, destruction, light, dark ( alot of dark. That shows how fucked up 'god' is.), etc. This isn't so much a belief for me, as something which i saw. Does that make me a born again pantheist?

S

prophecor

Evil and wickedness occurs but I can not attribute it to God. The death of the innocents at the hands of man or via natural disasters occurs on a daily basis. By mans hands, terrible things are being done. Hitler, Hussein, Stalin, Hirohito, Mussolini and others will answer for their behaviour to a Higher Power of some kind.

If God, however, in his infinite wisdom would have to save millions who have died at the hands of man, as well as because of a series of natural disasters such as the Tsunami a few years back, earthquakes, tidal waves, avalanches, volcanic eruptions and the like, then God, in his infinite wisdom would need to be held responsible for the murder of the uncounted who don't get such celebrated acclaim.

The girl in Oklahoma who recently lost her life at the hands of a mad man, who's intent was to not only murder and rape this ten year old girl, but also intended to partake of her corpse by way of ingesting it. The countless murders that occur in our metropolitan cities would all require a God who could prevent endless numbers of homicides from occurring, on a daily basis.

What about the accidents that occur on a daily basis? The person who gets electrocuted, all not entirely of his own doing because a mishap on a power line, or handling of tools during repair operations of the third rail in a New York subway system? The traffic accident thats going to occur tonight which is going to kill someone, several on the highway tonight? God would be required to prevent that from happening as well.

God can do any number of things, this I have no qualms with. To say that God does not care, only places an unrealistic aspect to the power that belongs to God. God is not a Genie in a magic bottle that we can rub to have him present himself to rectify all our series of insurmountable human complications. He does give grace to some, and to others, Grace does not come, or at best, does not come as quickly or easy.

We are the only creatures upon this planet with the powers of reason. We are in a long distanced way, a portion of the animal kingdom, but in the same breath, we have been created so that even the angels have described how they were in envy of our uniquely created position. God, described through man's writing, how we were created, just slightly less than angelic. We are also attached to a heavenly creator who does care for his creation. We, however, are so far from the mark of perfection to be able to thoroughly understand the Almighty in his infinite wisdom, that our powers of reason are squelched and leave many of us wanting in understanding regarding the Creator and his true intent for his creation.

We are greater than we would dare imagine, and God is good in all that has been given humankind. Until the rest of the story becomes more clear, I will never in my wildest dreams or even in my worst nightmare believe, that God does not exist.

ballistic

wow - who'd have known I'd have found so much peace on a thread such as this. A couple of kindered minds. I feel like I've smoked a pipe.

KW13

I think its sad that you chose to post this the way you did Gregor. I respect people who don't believe as i equally do the believers. What i notice is the way your arguing your thoughts. For example OK believers, time to put up or shut up...

Surely your a believer in the Freedom of speech and thoughts that allow you to post such things? Then why use them to attack people who believe differently. Yes i am a believer but still, i don't think that clouds my judgement of how this arguement was presented. Maybe i should of known better than to post.

Let me clarify my situation. There will be no putting up with and/or shutting up on my part. As an Ex-JW i come on this site to debate in a grown up manner and even to learn from people who are older than me. Sadly i don't think i'm going to be able to learn anything this time, not even on the principle that if you throw enough mud at a wall some will stick.

The world is something we can't understand, if i choose something (rightly or wrongly) that is my business. Should i make a topic saying "OK non-believers, time to put up or shut up..." Its not fair and its not considerate. When did choice leave cos if it has, i'll go.

No hard feelings from here.

Karl.

Satanus

Ballistic

It is true that i took one toke off the old peace pipe before this revelation. But, it was only enough to remove the veil, not bend my wt hardened mind.

S

ballistic

What revelation? You haven't revealed anything! lol

Satanus

Kw13

Orthodox believers tend to be broadly judgemental, even if subtly so. Therefore, many people who have been treated judgementally will have a reaction similar to gregor's. For instance, as a believer, what do you think that your god will do w us nonbelievers? You don't have to answer that. It's just for illustration purposes.

S

KW13

I don't know but i'm certainly not going to say what only that i believe its not my job to judge you and/or anyone else. for example if i believe God to be the one doing the measuring...then is er Gregor on behalf of all non-belivers?

i can go beyond tolerating how he feels no problem, but why should he make it so final as 'put up or shut up'.

Satanus

What revelation?

Just a little religious humor, there. Heh hheh. Kay, i'm off to do something sacreligious, now.

S

OK believers, time to put up or shut up...

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