I thought that 'sacrificing' r&f in this matter was a standard beef regarding the third reich issues
and isn't "sticking it up someone else's nose" simply a part of jwism ?
Comments from "30 Years a Watchtower Slave" that surprised me.....
by AK - Jeff 44 Replies latest watchtower bible
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startingover
Looking_glassThis might be the thesis you were referring to, it was written by Jan Haugland
http://home.broadpark.no/~jhauglan/rutherford.htm
After learning what I have about the early history of the org, I have a hard time understanding how my grandparents who started associating in 1910 stayed with it. I find this thread very interesting, thanks for starting it AK-Jeff
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AK - Jeff
In my absence I see a remarkable debate has been spawned. Good - thinking is always good IMO.
Lest anyone assume that I am an absolute witness basher [no one has made that statement BTW], I am not. I, as much as most who have been hurt, and robbed of years by my acceptance of their beliefs, am certainly not a supporter of them. I believe them to fit the general description of a cult, and to be dangerous in the sense that they take away freedom, and lead the easily manipulated to accept a life course that is generally non-fullfilling, even causing many to suffer in various ways.
I also understand that much of what JW's do and did in my lifetime in the org [from 1960 at age 5 till 2004] was at most a waste of time. It created in my character much that I like, although I believe I could have gotten from far less controlling religions.
What created my personal crisis of conscience dealt with the organization's moral and ethical issues more than doctrine. The pedophile issue, the Mexico bribery, the coverup of doctrinal flailings, the UN, etc. So the matter of Rutherford setting up the brotherhood to create favorable legal grounds to establish itself falls within my area of interest.
I personally think that they probably did just what Schnell suggested in his book. If they did it shows just how desperate they were to create an environment that would support their claims of 'persecution'. Additionally, it may have laid an immoral platform from which to build the organization, not on 'truth', but on psuedo-martyrdom. Another brick in the decietful foundation wherewith spang the modern day growth of the organization. Certainly, the 'persecution' of the witnesses, in alleged support of Jesus' words to that effect, has been a foundation-stone of many who have accepted the 'truth'.
Yet if it was feighned persecution, it is noteworthy from a moral standpoint. And despicable. Though other 'action groups' have done and will continue to do such things - this is a matter that clearly demonstates the duplicitious spirit and the lying nature of this religion. They have, after all, painted themselves to be 'without spot from the world', and in fact during this same period of time were establishing hard line doctrine of total nuetrality as a cornerstone in their theology, knowing it would be challenged with the brewing of World War II on the horizon. Yet, if this was staged and contrived, planned if u will, then it's premise, though establishing some positive legal direction in the matter of religious freedoms, was immoral, unethical, though perhaps establishing principles more quickly at law than natural events would have dictated.
Principles of right may often be advanced first in the interest of those who are not right, only to benefit others more deserving with the passage of time. In short - good may come from evil intent, but evil must never be credited with good intent.
Jeff
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unclebruce
A fascinating thread. Thanks, Trevor and all.
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AK - Jeff
I think the book you are referring to is: The Truth Book by Joy Castro.
AS- I have that book on my bookshelf. One of the few x-witness books that I just could not get into. Maybe the writing style or something. Started it, maybe 10 pages later put it down. Is it worth another try?
Jeff
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JAVA
This has been such an interesting and insightful thread—thanks to all who have contributed!
I found a copy of Schnell’s book at a used bookstore a few years ago. I didn’t care for his preachy tone in the book, but I think Schnell was honest in his observations of the early work and how Rutherford used the rank-n-file to set up legal issues that landed in court. Back in the mid 60’s I remember some of the older JWs fondly talking about taking toothbrushes with them when caravanning into some areas of Ohio and Indiana.
BTW, “Visions of Glory” (1978) by Barbara Grizzuti Harrison is an excellent read from a woman’s point of view. She died September 14, 2002. She didn’t have the inside information that Schnell had, but it’s very well written and worth the read if you can find a copy. -
diamondblue1974
I personally think that they probably did just what Schnell suggested in his book. If they did it shows just how desperate they were to create an environment that would support their claims of 'persecution'. Additionally, it may have laid an immoral platform from which to build the organization, not on 'truth', but on psuedo-martyrdom. Another brick in the decietful foundation wherewith spang the modern day growth of the organization. Certainly, the 'persecution' of the witnesses, in alleged support of Jesus' words to that effect, has been a foundation-stone of many who have accepted the 'truth'.
I have never read this book but my view on the persecution issue has for a long time been that the society actively creates the environments in which persecution is likely to occur. There are too many instances and examples to condense into this post but generally speaking they do nothing at best to suppress that alleged persecution unless it would hurt the finances of the organisation. Why is that?
Such alleged persecution to the rank and file might strike fear into the heart of many of them, but given their highly controlled mental state, it still reinforces their belief system; it reinforces their belief that 'the end is near' and the 'persecution' is yet another sign that they are on the right side and that 'armageddon is
round the corner,just ahead, hours away!This no doubt causes a stir of activity which the society financially needs and further might well be instrumental in bringing new recruits into the organisation which in turn drives activity and sales. All in all the society has a vested interest in dressing everything negative that could be happening to the organisation as persecution.
The more they flog their people with it, the more they do.
Just my thoughts and ramblings
DB74
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AK - Jeff
Such alleged persecution to the rank and file might strike fear into the heart of many of them, but given their highly controlled mental state, it still reinforces their belief system; it reinforces their belief that 'the end is near' and the 'persecution' is yet another sign that they are on the right side and that 'armageddon is
round the corner,just ahead, hours away!DB1974 - In fact, Schnell suggests that Rutherford may have even been trying to 'get Armageddon off to a good start' here. Jump start it if you will. He saw WWII on the way and anticipated [perhaps honestly] that the big A was possible. Kind of a schitzo mentality though.
With some of the things I have read about this guy, I sometimes wonder if he even believed in God.
Jeff
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diamondblue1974
In fact, Schnell suggests that Rutherford may have even been trying to 'get Armageddon off to a good start' here. Jump start it if you will. He saw WWII on the way and anticipated [perhaps honestly] that the big A was possible. Kind of a schitzo mentality though
Forgive my ignorance but upon what does Schnell base his opinion or was it just supposition? He might well be right but I dont know of Schnell's background and involvement with the Witnesses. Can someone fill in the blanks?
DB74
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JAVA
This is from the back cover of the book:
“Born in Jersey City, New Jersey, in 1905 . . . taken by his parents on a trip to their homeland, Germany, and there stranded by the outbreak of World War I . . . from Lutheran parentage, was converted in that church at an early age . . . in gratitude for God’s protection during WWI resolved to spend his life in God’s service . . . associated with the Bible Students, and with them fell under the sway of the Watch Tower Society under the direction of the ambitious new president, Judge Rutherford . . . employed in the headquarters of the German branch of the Watch Tower Society at Magdeburg . . . as Service Director helped subjugate the German Bible Students to the Society’s dictatorial rule . . . helped organize the work in Germany, Poland and Czechoslovakia . . . disgusted with the procedure and inner workings of the Society, he emigrated to the United States in 1927 . . . re-entered the Society’s employ as Pioneer in 1933 . . . became Company Servant then Unit Servant in Manhattan . . . placed in charge of the Pioneer desk in the Service Department at the Society’s New York headquarters . . . became Exactor (or Zone Servant) of Zone 1 (Northeastern Ohio and Northwestern Pennsylvania). . . helped foment riots in Hubbard, Ohio, and elsewhere, and fought in more than five hundred court battles, some even to the United States Supreme Court . . . was ordained a “minister” by Watch Tower Society, baptized 463 new converts, and organized about eighty-four congregations . . . came to a growing realization of the error of the Watch Tower Society as he returned to personal prayer and study of God’s Word . . . in 1954 returned to a life of freedom in Christ through an agonized night of soul struggle and prayer.”