JC FILE NOTES - What do they contain?

by Amazing 51 Replies latest jw friends

  • Amazing
    Amazing

    JC FILE NOTES - What Do they contain?

    Most JWs are not aware of the JC files, or at best have a vague idea. When a JW leaves the organization and learns of the JC files they may also wonder what is typically written, what gets retained, and whether it follows any given pattern.

    JC Meeting Procedure: In most cases JC meetings are scheduled for an early evening time, often on the weekend, or at least on a non-meeting night. Typically the Elders will wear suits, bring their briefcases containing the Flock book and supplements, a note pad, Bible, and a few other choice materials like the Organization book. (Although I have attended JC meetings where we met at 3 or 4 in the afternoon, and one or two of the Elders were in work cloths, smelled of sweat, and left the note taking up to me.)

    I don't recall anytime where the Society provided any directions or training on this - until the early 1990s when they began to send out instructions on keeping notes very brief and when an action is complete to keep few, if any, file notes.

    How Notes are Taken: Again, there is no guidance or training on how an Elder takes notes, so each is left to his own style. In my own case, I typically never wrote more than a page of notes, and I only wrote in outline form those items that seemed important at the time.

    Typically I made note of:

    1. Date and time of meeting
    2. Names of Elders and Chairman of that specific JC
    3. Name of person we met with
    4. Issues discussed (i.e. Drunkenness, Stealing, etc.)

    Often I noted the actual issue later on because we might not know the 'sin' or issue involved in advance.

    I did not always take "blow-by-blow" question and answer notes, but it often proved to be helpful to do so. Although, at times, I wish I had had a tape recorder. Usually the person confessing was most upset, and I noted this, and I considered thier emotions as a guide to guage repentance. For example, if a young brother was confessing masturbation, he would not tell us in advance, but felt he needed to wait to meet face to face. When I would get a call like this to request a meeting, I figured that it was either masturbation or some sexual offence, otherwise the person would say a little something before the JC meeting.

    When in the course of revealing the 'sin' I would note the 'circumstances' that seem to lead up to the sin. In the case of alcohol abuse, I would note what seem to trigger the drinking episodes, and what steps was the person was "already" taking to try and correct it. I heard a number of alcoholic confessions, and finally got the AA Big Book and formed a private JW AA program. The CO liked it, but some Elders felt I was running ahead of the Society. The reason I did this was because I felt that our usual organizational approach did not help the problem.

    My files notes often read something like this:

    1. Brother Jones feels very badly about drinking too much. Feels he may be an alcoholic.
    2. Brother Jones has been struggling for about 3 years and was fearful of stepping forward.
    3. Brother Smith (JC) asked Jones why he felt so fearful, and why he could not trust the Elders and Jehovahs arrangement.
    4. Brother Jones said that he did not fully recognize that he may be suffering from alcoholism, and lived in some shame and denial.
    5. Brother Harry (JC) ask Jones why he now steps forward to talk to us.
    6. Brother Jones says that he finally came to terms with this problem, and saw some good literature in the doctors office with a questionaire. He was able to answer many questions that showed he had a problem.
    7. Brother Smith asked if Jones considered using the Society Index to get helpful information.
    8. Bro. Jones said that he has read "every" article on alcohol that the Society ever published, and it was all helpful, but somehow the information in the doctor's office hit him just right.
    9. I ask brother Jones what he is planning to do now that he has talked to us. That is, what steps he plans to take to deal with his alcoholism.
    10. Brother Jones says he is not sure, and that he was just starting with us because he knows that is what Jehovah wants. He will do whatever we say so he can get this problem taken care of.

    [Note: at this point at least one Elder will bitch about why Bro. Jones waited so long to get the help of Elders, and why Bro. Jones didn't write to the Society or keep reviewing the Society publications, but instead found help in a 'worldly' magazine. Usually, I did not make a note of this type of bitching, because I had a special affection for problem drinkers and what they really needed.]

    12. (I would jump in at this point) and ask Brother Jones if he would like to work with me once we are done with the meeting, and set out a program to help him to recovery.

    13. Brother Jones would immediately express agreement and appreciation ... with almost a sense of desperation. (I would make a special note of this as and excellent sign of repentance.)

    14. When I was JC Chairman, I would cut this short if I could and ask the other Elders if they have any more questions or comments for Bro. Jones.

    15. Brother Smith would tell Bro. Jones that he appreciates his courage and concern to come clean with this problem and that he has done the right thing in seeking Jehovah's organization and the Elders for help. During the discussion he made notes of some additional Wt references and shares these with Bro. Jones. (Bro. Jone shows appreciation, but I can see that he has already read these.)

    16. Brother Harry notes that Brother Jones has been a little weak in meeting attendance and service, and recommends that Bro. Jones try to focus here so as to help take his mind off of drinking.

    [We now invite Bro. Jones to step back out into the Hall and wait while we talk. We will come get him when we are done. (These are very gruesome moments when a JW is waiting for the Elders to talk and make a decision. For some, thier whole life can pass before them.)]

    After Bro. Jones steps out, we almost always look at one another in a sense of not being sure what to say.

    17. I would then tell the other Elders that I believe that Bro. Jones is repentant, and that I am willing to spend some extra time to help him.

    18. Bro. Harry is not too convinced of Jones repentance. He feels that waiting so long to get help, and then not fully using the Society's publications suggests to him that Bro. Jones might not be as sorry as he would like us to think. [I often heard Elders like this say that the JW was just crying allegator tears, suggesting a faked repentance. If they only knew what people really go through and the shear fear and pain many feel.]

    19. I would note to the Elders that it was Bro. Jones that came to us, and if he had not opened up we would not have known. So it does seem to me that he came to us before matters got out of hand and he did something foolish while drunk.

    20. Bro. Smith noted too that Bro. Jones, like anyone, needs time, and if he had not read the Society's publications, then perhaps the article in the doctors office might not have hit him right -- that is it's the accumulation of information over time. He agrees with Bro. Amazing that Jones definitely seems repentant.

    21. Bro. Harry finally agrees, though with some reluctance, and then we discuss a course of action. Restriction from Prayer and Service Meeting parts. Bro. Jones can still comment. And Bro. Amazing will be the Elder to make the follow-up efforts to work with Bro. Jones and agree to meet again in a couple of months. [Often, these follow-ups were not done consistently or in a reasonable time period.]

    [This pretty much would conclude my note taking. We would call Bro. Jones back in and advise him that we see his repentance and that Bro. Amazing will talk to him about a program. The only restriction is Prayer and Service meeting parts. Bro. Jones appears very appreciative.]

    The other Elders then hand me their notes for the file. Usually, they were no more lengthy than my own notes, and often shorter with just a few comments noting the sin, and the general attitude. The other two Elders would see my notes and compliment me on my thoroughness, and say that my notes are enough for the file.

    Conclusion: What you see above is often typical of notes taken and filed, but there are exceptions. Some files, as I have noted in previous Justice posts, can be several hundred pages long, but that is the exception. In cases like Bro. Jones, we almost never placed any follow-up notes in the file unless he had a relapse in drinking and we had to impose more restrictions or even Public Reproof.

    The file notes are normally not too exciting. And contrary to tongue n' cheek claims, Elders do not sit around reading this stuff, not even the sexual sins of others. Most notes are rather boring, and deal mainly with whether a JW is repentant, the circumstances involved that led to the sin, and what steps were taken or not taken that affect the counsel given, and the disciplinary actions taken.

    Most Elders will talk about meetings and service as recommended ways to deal with almost any sin ... as a means of focus away from the sin. Most Elders will try to reference one or more of the Society's publications for guidance. Most Elders will try to pull out a favorite Bible verse or two to encourage the JW sinner. Most Elders will also have a Bible verse or two that addresses the sin and why it is wrong in God's eyes. This is how they are trained to give 'proper' counsel.

    Some Elders, expecially those that have themselves been in the JC 'Hotseat' in the past and who have a good measure of living experience will tend to be more kind and moderate as possible in the context of Society rules. Younger, newer, and less experienced Elders tend to be pricks. But, I have known some experienced Elders who remain idiots and hardhearted even into their advanced years.

    It is all too sad. Often good men, with good intentions, are spiritually handcuffed by the Society from really doing what their own hearts would otherwise let them do ... provide loving consolation and reassurance of God's love, and point the person toward professional counseling where needed, and then mind their own business. - Amazing

  • roybatty
    roybatty

    >>Yonger, newer, and less experienced Elders tend to be pricks. But, I have known some who remain idiots and hardhearted even into their advanced years.<<

    It always did amaze me how cruel some elders could be. There always was one elder on the JC who wanted to throw the book at the poor sap. I think one of the most pathetic JC I served on was df'ing a 16 year old kid for smoking. Yeah, he had been warned before but what purpose served by all of this?
    I also felt weird when I sat there and this person sitting in front of me would go into detail confessing this sin that they had done. Here I am, a 28 year old punk listening to some woman tell me about her meeting her boss at a motel. I would think to myself "you need more help then I can provide."

  • joelbear
    joelbear

    Roy,

    You hit the nail on the head. Elders are simply not equipped to deal with the reasons behind the behavior. There is simply more to a person's situation than whether they are coming to enough meetings or reading the bible enough.

    These guys have a lot of guilt on their hands for judging people, altering their lives and providing no real support to their life needs.

    Joel

  • Winston
    Winston

    I remember when I was an elder in the begining i thought the older brother were to soft, but after a few years experience I mellowed out some what and learned not to rely on the Society.

    Quite a few of the more experienced brothers that I knew would not openly go against the Society but you could tell they were alot more merciful and would often NOT look at things the way the Org did.

    It was usually the newer elders for the most part that felt the need to stick to the letter not of the law, but the letter of the Society's instruction.

    I remember one more experienced brother saying to a brother we just appointed an elder, when we gave him the elder's handbook from the Society, he said to him: "becareful the stuff in this book don't eat up your brains".

    I still being relatively new(3yrs.) as a elder was shocked by this statement, but as the years went by, found out that this was some very good advice.

    Latter as time went on I used to hate it when brothers would bring out the Society's elder handbook at our elder's meeting and give it more attention than the Bible. It seemed to me we had become just like the Pharasees.

    Former elder turned apostate (by WT definition)[:)}and proud of it!

  • JEMIMAH
    JEMIMAH

    Interesting post Amazing

    It brings me back to an appeal committee I sat on about 18 months ago

    The OJ's notes on a smoking case ran to 23 A4 pages, I have never seen anything like it, as you can imagine such "detail" led us to believe that the OJ were a little anal retentive and we upheld the appeal.

    Since Feb 2001, notes are not kept any more of any JC, just the SSL to fill in.

    Cheers

    Jem

  • drahcir yarrum
    drahcir yarrum

    WOW, this is good stuff. It makes me glad that I NEVER confessed my sins to the elders about anything. (Yes, I know most of you will find it hard to believe, but I have sinned, and enjoyed it) I would not be as critical of the men involved in these JC's as the system itself. Untrained people having an unbelievable impact on someones life and mental health.

    The attitude of the elder who had doubts about this persons repentence makes me sick. I'd be tempted to slap the silly dufus and tell him when someone comes forward on their own, they are repentent. End of story. Of course all of this is assuming that "sin" and "repentence" have any basis in reality, which in my opinion they don't. You can't sin against someone who doesn't exist.

  • Maximus
    Maximus

    At the risk of being forever labelled as part of your clique of toadies, <huge grin> let me first tell you how much I appreciate your informative and helpful posts, good friend. You've worked tirelessly and selflessly for a very long time now. (BTW, You are likely aware of it, but Jemimah is reflecting policy in a branch different from the U.S.)

    Someone has written me who really needs to connect with you, and my attempts to facilitate that result in bounced mail for whatever reason. Could you drop me a note with a better address? I have just had to temporarily lock my address because of being behind in replying to so many letters from hurting folks.

    Warmest,
    Max

  • MacHislopp
    MacHislopp

    Hello Amazing,

    thanks for the excellent material, as usual.

    Makes you think, expecially for those ...at the receiving

    end.

    I do agree with Joel words:

    "These guys have a lot of guilt on their hands for judging people, altering their lives and providing no real support to their life needs."

    I do remember that " with the measure that you are ...

    it will ...to you "!

    Greetings, J.C.MacHislopp

  • MacHislopp
    MacHislopp

    Hello again to everyone,

    nice to have few words from you..Max.

    All the best, at take it easy!

    J.C.MacHislopp

  • LDH
    LDH

    Having been the victim of a JC when I was 19, I'd like to reflect on some of the questions I was asked. (the sin was immorality, I was pregnant).

    I've often wondered whether my answers as recorded are still in someone's house or even at the Hall. They did take notes.

    1. What color was the man you slept with? (This was one of the first ?'s asked) I stated I didn't feel comfortable answering that question. (remember, I was 19 and meeting with three 40 something sexually frustrated men alone)

    2. What caused you to be sexually attracted to him? HMMM, I don't know, maybe hormones?

    3. Describe the encounter in detail. What was the purpose of this question?

    4. Did you use any form of birth control? (ok, for those that missed it above, I was pregnant. Kind of a moot point)

    5. Did you enjoy the encounters? (No, I did it several times because it hurt. DUH!)

    6. Have you been masturbating? (Although I have since I was 13-14 like every other female I know, I chose to lie on this one. HOW EMBARRASING!)

    7. How is your personal prayer habit? Often times when 'ones' have sinned it's because they've been neglecting personal prayer! Talk about recycled Watchtowerisms!

    And this went on and on for two meetings.

    Interestingly enough, when I went home in tears, I talked with my father. (Also an elder) He was very upset when I told him about the "What color was he" question. I was a nervous wreck over these men taking notes for hours about my personal life and sex habits, of which there really weren't any at that point.

    These men have a lot to answer for. Joel is right, most of them are uneducated men, hardly in any position to be passing judgement on someone's life.

    Thank you for this subject. I will also post in on my Experiences thread with the rest of the story.

    Lisa
    Hi Max!

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