JC FILE NOTES - What do they contain?

by Amazing 51 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  Richie

  I enjoyed your post Jeffory about the fact that you were able to destroy the files....I remember once when 2 elders came to my house unannounced (one of the elders called me to say he was coming over - I asked him why and he didnt want to say anything - I told him that I was busy and it was not a good time to come over - they came anyways; so much for consideration!!). They brought up some discrepancy about an insurance settlement at the time (my 1st wife died in 1989) about which I told a "reliable" elder in private, who I thought was my best friend.
  This was a minor matter and should not have been broadcast to others...Anyways, the elders were quite forceful in their assertions that I was not truthful about certain insurance rules etc... They even brought up a situation that happened about 12 years BEFORE and they claimed that this was a "pattern of things" and therefore should be dealt with more seriously.... Can you believe that???
  At the time I must say I was good enough not to throw them out of my house, but I did not do so for the simple reason that I was ready to become engaged to my new wife at the time, so I didn't want to spoil the whole thing by having them throw the book at me if I would have thrown them out....In hindsight maybe I should have done so!!!!
  Am I glad that I woke up and fled the bodysnatchers for good 1 1/2 years ago!

  :*) Richie

  You are the music as long as the music last...............
• 

  California Sunshine

  Amazing.... I could not stop reading until I came to the end of this thread. I learned alot.

  I've been away from this cult for many years (more than 20) and am very grateful for that. I was never very active and was in it mostly to please my Mom who was very fanatical. My family is forever split in two. Five siblings, two in and three out. The two in decided they should start shunning the rest of us after the WT article of Sept 15, 1981(perhaps you recall that paticular issue). Although I don't know why. None of the rest of us were sinning unrepentantly. We just didn't want to be witnesses.

  So I'm searching for understanding. I guess I always will be.
  
  I am appalled at what I have read here tonight but I'm glad you talked about it. This forum it a great thing.

  Thanks

  minds are like parachutes--they only function when open.
• 

  ZAQEN

  I don't ever remember making notes. I do recall being one of those who found it very hard to accept anyone as truly repentant. On one occasion a woman in the congregation who was constantly abused and threatened violence by an opposed husband (mental psychopath) had committed one isolated act of adultery. She confessed but had not told her husband - we told her that if she was truly repentant, she would have to tell him. She feared for her life but did tell him and survived. However, we and an appeals committee still did not believe she had shown true repentance and disfellowshipped her. She endured her disfellowshipping and subsequent probation and is still an active JW to this day. What Pharisaical bastards we were! God forgive us.
• 

  Amazing

  Hi Zaqen: I also knew an Elder who did not accept repentance. He said that most people cry 'allegator' tears -- a reference he made to faked repentance. He once stated that "if 'they' were truly sorry, they would not have placed themselves in the position of sinning in the first place."

  I found his logic hard to comprehend, and his heart rather hard. But, I truly think that is more the product of 'organizational' thinking. I find in the majority of cases, that when as person leaves the JWs, the heart softens for people. We are wiser, and sharper, and more watchful of ever being trapped again by religion -- but we become compasionate, caring, and genuinely Christian. - Amazing
• 

  Richie

  A question to Amazing!
  I was df'd as an elder 1 1/2 years ago - Can I demand to have all of my files destroyed for whatever personal reason? What would the procedure be - do I really have to wait at least 5 years before they legally follow up on that? Please tell me the recourse to be taken.

  :*) Richie

  You are the music as long as the music last...............
• 

  D wiltshire

  Concerning repentance.

  When I was a new elder, it took a lot to convince me of repentance, as the years went by, I soften.
  Along with it(as the years passed) I also didn't really care for the Society's elders hand book either, in fact I never ever refered to it. When ever a fellow elder would open it up (the book) to sorta give his fellow elder some council about proceedure I would feel like the Pharasees(use the Bible not that).

  On repentance again.
  There was a brother(Sullivan I think?) in the service department, that was famous for this saying:
  "If there is an error in judgement let it be on the side of mercy"
  Does anybody recall this?

  I'll defend your right to say it, but it doesn't mean I beleive it.
• 

  JT

  had enough asked

  And you said:"I destroyed JC files older than five years per Society instruction".
  Is this practice actually followed through on regularly in congregations in your experiences? Or would I have to ask the elders to do so?

  #######
  no no no

  IN MOST CONGO the elders are so sad when it comes to paper work most SEC don't even know that the 5yr rule is even in place- they rarely keep up with Approved Organizational Precedures as we use to call it

  this is really the bottom line reason wt has so many problems- they don't really care about the quality of the men in charge in most congos

  as ray mentioned in his book the Society knows that many elders are not qualified even by thier own standards, but they also know that the rank and file is under threat of death if they question some Old Fool called an Elder

  james
• 

  Jeremy Bravo

  Hey Amazing,

  Would they have any files/documentation on aomeone like me? As you know, I studied for close to a year and "DA'd" myself before getting baptized. I told an elder face to face, and did not just fade away.

  If they do, what kind of stuff would be there?
  Just curious....

  Jer.
• 

  Had Enough

  Hello ZAQEN:

  Welcome to the board. I appreciate so much hearing from ones who were elders who can share insight with us such as you have. To hear you condemn yourself, as others have here, for following organizational rules and/or attitudes, means so much to us who suffered under them.

  There are many of us here, who like the woman you described, cried tears of repentance only to be chastized as "not really repentant", and as "not sorry for what you did, but just sorry you got caught". That always made me fume inside, since I was the one who confessed and would never have got "caught" if I hadn't confessed.

  Thank you for adding your experience and we look forward to more.
• 

  Amazing

  Hi Richie and Jeremy: First Richie, you asked,

  "I was df'd as an elder 1 1/2 years ago - Can I demand to have all of my files destroyed for whatever personal reason? What would the procedure be - do I really have to wait at least 5 years before they legally follow up on that? Please tell me the recourse to be taken."

  I have been totally away and DA'd since 1995, but I stopped attending meetings in May 1992. So, I understand that today, according to some posters, that the Society discourages notes in the file except for the S-77 and S-79 Cards, and maybe the Pub Cards of the DF'd person. So, I am not totally equipped to respond according to today's procedures.

  That said, were you to have approached me, about 9 years ago, when I was still an Elder, I would likely decline to remove or destroy any file materials until the 5 year limit expired for JC notes, and the 2 year limit on Pub. Cards. Once these time frames passed, I would have destroyed everything except your DF Card with a note as to who the original JC was. That information would be retained forever in the event you asked to be reinstated. It is needed to send back to the Society notifying them of reinstatement. [I might have kept your last Pub. Card anyway - they are designed front and back to cover two years - so as to have a record of your baptism date and last known address. But that would have been my own thing, and a Society directive. My motive would not be to be intrusive - but simply for my own convenience in the event you were reinstated, I would have some record to work with.]

  Were I a DF'd Elder today, that is recently DF'd and wanted my file and all record of my involvemnent with the religion exponged and destroyed, I would see out an attorney and have him/her contact the Society and the local congregation to make the request. But, like the Catholic Church, I would not expect that I could ever get the Society to cooperate in such a request. And even when a person gets reinstated, it is my understanding that the Society keeps a record of their DF history FOREVER, even after the person is deceased.

  Hope that helps.

  Jeremy: Normally, Elders would never keep any file note on a person who was never baptized, unless you became an 'approved associate' and considered 'officially' and unbaptized Publisher. If you then, prior to baptism committed some sin, and met with the Elders, note might me made, and a file retained along with your Pub. Cards. But when I served as an Elder, we only had a a couple of cases of removing unbaptized Publishers from being approved associates, and I honestly do not recall keeping any file on them.

  But, if you only studied and went to meetings, but never became involved in the School or Field Service, then I doubt any file would have ever been created. And even if you went to the Elders with some 'sin' they would counsel you, but not keep any record -- at least in my experience.

  BUT - --- there is always a BUT ... LOL IF you had been known to rbing in 'apostate' influence, causing some to leave the organization, then I have no doubt a file would be created on you. I personally know a women who studied for a while while living in Washington State, and then she saw through the Watch Tower teachings, and read many books that exposed the flaws in the JW beliefs. She started a ministry to help JW women. She would attend meetings, agree to study, and have two or three JW women over, and then turn around the study, and would kindly introduce her points to them.

  Over time she helped many JW women to leave the organization, including some Pioneer sisters. This alarmed the Elders, and they strongly asked her not to attend their Kingdom Hall anymore. She then tried another nearby Hall, and the Elders were able to get the JWs there to shun her. She tried yet another Hall, and the Elders barred her from attending meetings. The subsequent congregations to the first one were all tipped off that this women was influenced by 'apostate' thinking ... and she was effectively DF'd in a manner of speaking ... and I have absolutely no doubt that there is a file on her. But, that is an exception reather than a rule.

  Amazing