JC FILE NOTES - What do they contain?

by Amazing 51 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  TweetieBird

  Good for you Jeffory.

  My husband has often stated that he would love to break into the KH files and pull his out and burn it. I know brothers who were once friends of his (now elders) that more than likely hit the filing cabinet as soon as they were appointed, just to see why he was removed as a MS and publicly reproved. I wouldn't put it past them.

  Good post, Amazing, as always.

  Anyone that has ever had to succumb to a judicial committee meeting knows the horrors that are involved. Amazing's outline is right on the money, at least in the instances that I know about.

  Joelbear is right, these men have a lot to answer for. My blood is boiling.

  "By doubting we come at truth" -Cicero
• 

  MadApostate

  Is there now a SOP that "files" be stored at the KH? I thought the Secretary took such home.

  If now kept at KH, is there SOP for where and how stored, such as one of these cheap residential safes?

  I am also curious how many KHs now have security systems, and what kind?
• 

  Tina

  Hi amazing,
  Thanks to you and all for the data!
  I have a question.
  What if an individual just leaves the org.No meetings or visits w/ any elders at all. Are they simply marked inactive? And how long do they hold on to the publisher card of such an individual?
  Do copies go to HQ? I'm pretty sure this was asked before,but I can't find the info. Thanks in advance.luv to all,T

  Carl Sagan on balancing openness to new ideas with skeptical scrutiny..."if you are open to the point of gullibility and have not an ounce of skeptical sense-you cannot distinguish useful ideas from worthless ones."
• 

  ballistic

  Some people were posting the questions asked them at their JC. Well I was at a double disfellowshipping (of me and my ex-wife) and after all the questions about the actual incident, one of the elders started reaming off a whole load of rapid fire questions such as: have you ever smoked, have you owned pornography, have you commited adultery, have you gambled? and so on, one question after another. I was absolutely astonished. I couldn't see any basis for this in the elders manual other than asking if there was anything else I wished to speak about.

  It wasn't only the nature of these questions but it was the manner they were asked - it turned it into an interrogation.

  Also, I was not told why the JC had been formed. I asked the elder why - over the phone and he refused to tell me. Can anyone tell me why, when the bible clearly states that you should approach your brother with a problem before going to the elders???
• 

  Amazing

  Hi Tina: You asked the following:

  "What if an individual just leaves the org. No meetings or visits w/ any elders at all. Are they simply marked inactive? And how long do they hold on to the publisher card of such an individual? Do copies go to HQ?"

  If you just leave, and have no JC issues, then there is no file made, nor any notes kept, in most cases). In some rare situations where an Elder just loves to make note - as in the case where I was last associated - then there could be a file.

  Most Siutautions: Usually, when a person just leaves and is not to be found, as each month passes, their Congregation Publisher Record Card is noted for no time. When 6 months pass, if the Secretary is doing his job, then he will place the Pub. Card into an inactive file. The Inactive and Irregular list of Publishers is often used by the Elders to schedule Shepherding calls.

  If you have not reported time for two years, the Congregation Publisher Record Cards is supposed to be destroyed. But, you name may stay on an Inactive list and the Elders will try to make contact from time to time. Evetually, they will give up and cross your name off of the list. But, there is no guarantee this will happen or in any specific time frame.

  No record is ever sent ot the Watch Tower Society unless you have been DA'd or DF'd, in which case the S-77 or S-79 card stating your DF or DA status is sent in. But your Pub Cards and JC notes stay with the Congregation. The only time your JC notes would ever be shared with the Soceity is if you wrote to the Society to appeal a DF decision, or the Elders sought guidance in your case because of some unique factors not covered in the Shepherds of the Flock book.

  However, once DA'd or DF'd, that record is maintained by the Watch Tower Society - FOREVER! - Even after your death. So, my own DA S-77 or S-79 card will still be in some old file cabinet at Watch Tower Headquarters long after my body has turned to dust. My legacy lives on. - LOL

  What I did as Secretary: When I took over that position, I immediately organized the Actives, Irregulars, and Inactives. The ELder who turned the files over to me did not maintain them well. But he was old school JW where they did not care as much for the level of paperwork, and did not see the importance the Society placed on it.

  I found JC files and Pub. Cards going back 30 years in some cases. I destroyed JC files older than five years per Society instruction. I made a total list of Inactives and Irregulars for the Elders meeting. We discussed each person as to whether they still lived, or if they were still in town. Many Pub. Cards were destroyed because we had no clue about the names or where the individuals went. Some Pub. Cards were of dead JWs, or long ago DF'd and DA'd JWs.

  If you can imagine a congregation having 30 years of records in a growing California community near San Francisco, then you can imagine an enourmous file. All scattered and a mess. I had to read every JC file to see where the notes belonged. Some were not named, and I had to match paper type, handwriting, and details of the cases. So, I got a sordid view of several hundred people who at one time or another had certain JC action against them. I could extend my JC series from its current 17 cases to many dozens that I still recall.

  I hope I answered your questions okay. If you walked away with no JC actions going on, and it has been several years, then likely the Elders have destroyed you Pub. Card and that is that. But, there is a chance that you are on a Shepherding list, and will stay there for some time unless you move far away. - Amazing
• 

  Cassiline

  Dear Amazing & Winston and any other member of this board who were once Elders,
  I was wondering if you shared what you may have learned in a JC with your spouse or friends. I am asking because it always seemed the sisters knew what was happining in the "back room". The gossip was always so bad in my hall/s.
  I am not condemng you by asking this I was/am curious. I am sorry in advance if this question may offend anyone.

  C

  When the pain of being where we are, becomes greater than our fear of letting go...we will risk and heal and grow.
• 

  MadApostate

  Cass:

  There are some Elders who maintain confidentiality completely, and there are some who are like news reporters.

  Back in the late 80s, I ran into my then PO and his wife in a local store. Right in front of her, he starts discussing a highly sensitive issue occurring in the Cong. I interrupted him, and suggested that the topic would be better discussed in private. He stated: "Oh, don't worry about her, she knows not to repeat Cong things to others."

  The fact was that both he and she repeated everything to their JW relatives, and whatever they knew, everyone knew.

  The sad act is that that asshole is still a PO today, and my relatives indicate that there is still zero privacy in that Cong.

  At the same time, I have been in other Congs where you didn't even know who was the target of a "marking" talk, even months later.
• 

  Amazing

  Hi Cass: I concur completely with MadApostate's response. I myself was careful not to discuss the JC confidences. In some cases some Elders will 'spill the beans' sometime after a JW has been DF'd, because they feel that it no longer matters. That is how I first learned of a former PO (CS) who was DF'd for praying to Satan. When I later became Secretary I saw these allegations in the JC file on the former PO(CS). (He was actually a Congregation Servant prior to the Elder arrangement.) So, I know that the gossip was based on something documented. I think that most Elders try to be careful about talking to their wives, but some still do as Mad Apostate noted.

  After I left the organization and the Molestation issue came up, I have revealed the names of those I know to be pedophiles to my family. I revealed one name of a convicted pedophile to news reporters for investigation work.

  Other than these instances, and my Justice Series where I discuss actual cases, be redact names, places, and date to protect the accused and other innocent people involved, I have kept all confidential to this day. And I have many dozens of JC and counseling cases that I recall, but I see no need to reveal anything beyond the scope of what I did in the Justice series. - Amazing
• 

  Had Enough

  Hello Amazing:

  I just lost my first reply I composed to you...I'll try to recreate the gist of it.

  This is a subject that deeply upsets me...I sometimes can't find the words to describe it. Even so, thanks for giving those who never have gone through this, who may still be "locked-in" to the WTS, a very accurate, vivid picture of the reality of a Judicial Committee and the unscriptural, un-loving, unshepherd-like-type elder that have dominated too many a JC.

  I endured those painfully demeaning and humiliating interrogations and even though I don't like to remember the experience, I want to never forget it. Sounds absurd? I want to keep on remembering it so that I never, ever, allow myself to be controlled by a man-made organization, or any human for that matter, again!

  CPiolo said: ". As an outsider it's eye-opening and amazing that people voluntarily subject themselves to such abuse."

  Yes I can understand how an 'outsider' can find it difficult to understand how one can allow someone to control them in this way...to answer question after question for explicit details that really have no bearing on the "sin". The "sin" itself is what needs forgiving ... not the details.
  But when you are conditioned to believe, heart and soul, that the only way to have God's forgiveness and blessings again(?) is to submit to everything and anything the elders {God's "helpers"} may say and do, then you make yourself endure it.

  It really helps to know of how many others have enduring the JC inquisitions themselves and "survived" to get out too. It is therapeutic and strengthens the resolve to never allow anyone to hold me under their thumb of authority again.

  I wonder though:
  When I moved to another congregation, would my JC file get sent to it those elders?

  Would elders open and read the JC file of someone newly moved in?

  And you said:"I destroyed JC files older than five years per Society instruction".
  Is this practice actually followed through on regularly in congregations in your experiences? Or would I have to ask the elders to do so?

  It is encouraging to hear the appreciation in the words of so many here who thank you, and ones like Maximus, JEMIMAH and many others who are using their knowledge to keep chipping away at the WTS. (no "goupie" here-nudge nudge, wink wink, and grinning- just expressing my gratitude and respect)
• 

  Amazing

  Hi Had Enough: You asked,

  "When I moved to another congregation, would my JC file get sent to it those elders?"

  No, it would always stay with the original congregation. The only thing sent to your new congregation is a letter letting the new congregation Elders know your status. If for example, all your privileges are restored and no action is ongoing, then the letter will simply tell the new Elders that you are in good standing.

  If some action is still pending, and say there is still a restriction, then a brief mention of what restriction remains is stated. It is up to the new congregation to restore these privileges. And they do not normally inquire into why the restrictions exist, but simply look at your performance from the time you arrived.

  If a DF'd person moves, nothing is sent unless the DF person seeks reinstatement. In that case, the Elders simply write to the previous congregation for information, usually requestion help, and providing a progress report, but the new congregation will not know of the 'sin' unles the DF person decides to reveal it. The former congregation will then send a letter agreeing to reinstatement or not. In one of my Justice Series, the former congregation held out for 5 years and refused to reinstate. When I became Secretary, I discovered this, and also learned that all the original JC members moved on. So, I persuaded the Elders to reinstate, and we did.

  You also asked:

  "Would elders open and read the JC file of someone newly moved in?"

  No. Only the original JC can read the file, or in some cases, like mine, the Secretary can read it. And I did read JC files in cases where I did not serve on the JC.

  Yoiu asked about the five year file destruction,

  "Is this practice actually followed through on regularly in congregations in your experiences? Or would I have to ask the elders to do so?"

  It is supposed to be followed everywhere. My impression is that many Elders are good about following this procedure, but many are not. Mostly they forget and the file stays in the cabinet. Some like to keep such records, and hold them for a long time for some reason.

  In practice, two Elders are supposed to witness the burning of files to be sure it is done. But, sometimes, a Secretary or other Elder will agree to burn the files, but instead take them home and hide them. I personally know of one Elder who did this, because I know for a fact that my own file is in his home office.

  I have never had a Publisher ask for a file to be destroyed, mostly because they are not aware of the existence of such files. So, I am not sure what would happen if you asked the Secretary in your former congregation to burn the file. If it is older than 5 years, then it should have been destroyed.

  If you are now technically not DF or DA, then you might call the Elder and ask about any records on you and what they contain, and if they have destroyed it per Watch Tower direction. But, the Elder may feel uncomfortble with such a request, because it would be very rare to here from a JW in this kind of issue. They may no want to commit to anything until the call the Society for guidance. IF you do not have a DA or DF s-77 or s-79 card with the Society, then they will probably advise the Elder to burn the file per procedure --- but only after he checks with your current congregation to determine if you ar ein good standing.

  Hope this helps. - Amazing