Does God Work Through an Organization? (page 2)

KW13

http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/12/112856/1.ashx

dr jekyll made a good topic just on that, and folks gave us scriptural basis for WHY he DOES NOT have an earthly org.

One very difficult argument that I haven’t yet overcome is that if you believe (as JWs do) that a worldwide preaching work needs to be undertaken , then how is it possible to do this without any form of structure or organised body? Any argument that God didn’t use a similar organisation in the past is irrelevant as no similar work on such a scale has been undertaken in the past (as Tom Cabeen acknowledges).

The bible instructions to meet together , to speak in unity , to have “love among yourselves” , appoint elders and others in positions of direction and , above all , the command to preach would seem to strongly infer , indeed demand , an administrative structure.

mrsjones5

Thank you Confession. I will be soon visiting my parents who are jws. I'm going to print out a copy of this and leave it my room at my parents house. I know my mother well, she'll find it.

Josie

peacefulpete

The so-called Mosaiac Law was written down about 800-1200 years after the supposed time of the legendary Moses so using these texts to reconstruct the actual conditions of the earliest peoples that came to be called Israelites would be of dubious value. What is clear is that some of the contributors to the OT (not to mention the implied counter views) decried/disparaged the Kingship while others endorsed it. The same is true of the Yahwahist priesthood and its monopoly on worship. It would be a case of selective proof texting to use the OT to "prove" that the God of the Bible did or did/does not institute a hierchal govenmental structure. What we can be sure of is that any confederation or nation of the period was not democratically governed. Kings ruled with violence, priesthoods reigned through deception and manipulation. Just why anyone would use that dark period of human history as a model for organizing people today is the question.

AK - Jeff

I would say that no 'admin body' was noted in the Law itself.

Early on, Moses at the urging of his FIL did set up those who were over others, 1000's, 100's, 10's. I think an astute JW could argue that Moses did so under the quidance of Holy Spirit. Opponents could argue that it was a 'non Jew', who insisted it was the wise thing to do, hence not by HS. The witness retort would be that GOd would not have let Moses do so if it was against his ideas and purpose.

It would all be speculative of course - but an argument could be made for it I think. Any witness wishing to keep his conscience shacked to the Jw system would find the early Moses admin a powerful argument to hold them in. I would find ways to counter that argument.

If I was still in it's the one I would have used off the top of my head.

Jeff

hooberus

One very difficult argument that I haven’t yet overcome is that if you believe (as JWs do) that a worldwide preaching work needs to be undertaken , then how is it possible to do this without any form of structure or organised body? Any argument that God didn’t use a similar organisation in the past is irrelevant as no similar work on such a scale has been undertaken in the past (as Tom Cabeen acknowledges).

The issuse is not whether "any form" of "structure or organized body" is required, but whether a formal earthly, "visible organization" led hierarchically by a central "governing body" is stipulated or required. The Holy Spirit unites all believers worldwide into an living organism regardless of formal organizational memberships.

The bible instructions to meet together , to speak in unity , to have “love among yourselves” , appoint elders and others in positions of direction and , above all , the command to preach would seem to strongly infer , indeed demand , an administrative structure.

Christians have always met together with or without formal organizations. Indeed Jesus said: "For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them." Matthew 18:20

To "speak in unity" requires being led of the Spirit and the scriptures not a formal organization. However to speak in uniformity (a WT requirement) does require a formal organization, thus they emphasis it.

There is no requirement for a WT like organization with its "administrative structure" in order for for Christian believers to have "love among yourselves". I personally am friends and love other believers who attend other Christain denominations or fellowships, and yet our bond is one of love in the Spirit. What kind of true love requires an "administrative structure" to be in effect?

The apoinment of elders in Acts 14 was done by Paul and Barnabus without any specific formal consulatation of a central organized body.

The command to preach was given by Jesus to all Christians, as well as the Holy Spirit and needs no single administrative structure. Indeed Paul took pains to state that he did not confer with "flesh and blood" nor go "up to Jerusalem" to the other apostles before commensing his preaching work.

Galatians Chapter 1

15: But when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother's womb, and called me by his grace,
16: To reveal his Son in me, that I might preach him among the heathen; immediately I conferred not with flesh and blood:
17: Neither went I up to Jerusalem to them which were apostles before me; but I went into Arabia, and returned again unto Damascus.

Then he tried to redeem himself by having his son tortured to death.

God is now unemployable. He doesn't work through an organization, for a company, nor is he self employed. Just redundant!

Does God Work Through an Organization?

KW13

dozy

mrsjones5

peacefulpete

AK - Jeff

hooberus

plmkrzy

Confession

darth frosty

THE GLADIATOR

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