"Raw Abandonment"

by scout575 29 Replies latest watchtower bible

• 

  freetosee

  Shining One,

  Scout is not whining he is warning about something he and others see as deceitful and dangerous. We should all be careful about using the red-herring. Sadly I know a few ex-jws who have joined Christian-cults and their situation is just like it was in their WT times.

  Your comment, that non-(Christian)-children-of-God are NOT deserving of having their prayers being answered by the Almighty, does not ‘shine forth’ righteousness. Could you further explain this, because the likelihood of becoming Christian has much to do with WHERE you are born? Just like having something to eat or enjoying human rights depends on where and when you are born? I would much prefer to read in the bible about God sending his mighty angels to protect women and girls from being raped, rather then delivering destructive messages to highly privileged prophets or apostles?

  Freetosee
• 

  daniel-p

  When people have no solid argument they often appeal to emotion. You must be a leftist liberal, you know, the 'knee-jerk' variety...LOL
  
  > "Crikey! Look 'ere... you can see the marsupial trying to twist his way out of an awkward situation by reducing the argument to that of petty bi-partisan politics! But if we just follow 'im a bit we might be privy to a terrific row!"
  
  Would you like some mustard on your red-herring? You really should shut up until you can actually make an intelligent comment.
  
  > "In an attempt to ward off any predators the marsupial puffs up his... ooh-de-lally! you can see it now!"
  
  That comment speaks for itself. Let me ask you, Daniella, Are you in 8th or 9th grade?
  
  > "And now, in order to escape from danger, the marsupial defecates uncontrolably so as to mark his territory and signal the end of the fight. Ohh what a fine specimen!"
• 

  Spectrum

  I think for those who believe, their prayers will be answered because by their actions they will make it so. The stronger the belief one has in prayer the harder that person will operate to answer his prayers.
• 

  Hellrider

  Hm, I would like to see your response to that question too, Shining one. The question: What about people growing in places where there is no christianity? What about the beduin living in the desert in Africa who knows nothing about christianity? What happens to him after death? I think it`s a good question that needs to be answered. And, as you are the main "upholder" (for lack of better words) of christianity on this forum, it would be cool if you could answer that question?
• 

  Shining One

  Hellrider,
  Read Romans chapter one...no excuses.
  >What about people growing in places where there is no christianity? What about the beduin living in the desert in Africa who knows nothing about christianity?
  He recognizes creation, he seeks God, if he settles for anything short of Christ then you know where he goes. What you need is a full study of Calvinism. That type of study will take you some time. An imperfect analogy about being chosen by God would be like a situation where a governor of a state gives out pardons (grace-unmerited favor). The other inmates have the same type of crimes and pay the full penalty.
  Then you might study the Arminian take on God's providence. Take your pick, the former leans toward God doing all the choosing and the latter leans toward man having more free will. That's as far as it goes: we only know enough to have the faith that God has settled the question through the sacrifice of His son. God is good-completely and He sets the standards and makes the calls beteen good and evil.
  BTW, every other religion teaches that man has to meet all of the rules and obligations then might make it to their version of heaven. For Islam the only way to guarantee salvation is to die while killing many infidels (Jihad). That's why the World's Biggest Cult has so many homicide bombers.
  Christianity teaches that God's gift is eternal salvation, receive His son (1 Cor. 15: 1-8), the account is settled, you do good works that are then stored up as treasure in heaven. (1 Cor. 3)
  Rex
• 

  sir82

  >What about people growing in places where there is no christianity? What about the beduin living in the desert in Africa who knows nothing about christianity?
  
  He recognizes creation, he seeks God, if he settles for anything short of Christ then you know where he goes.

  What about the 2-year old child of said Bedouin, who contracts yellow fever and dies?

  At what point is the age of accountability, in the case of children born and raised in an environment where Christianity is at best unknown, and at worst misrepresented? And what happens to those who die before that age? There are millions who die in that situation every year.
• 

  atypical

  Shiner: He recognizes creation, he seeks God, if he settles for anything short of Christ then you know where he goes. What you need is a full study of Calvinism. That type of study will take you some time. An imperfect analogy about being chosen by God would be like a situation where a governor of a state gives out pardons (grace-unmerited favor). The other inmates have the same type of crimes and pay the full penalty.

  This is where you will always go wrong - in blaming the innocent. You are saying that a starving child in Africa should be not only searching for God instead of food, but also that he/she should discover and agree with your belief system in order to deserve God's love. As far as the "pardon" analogy, I think it was great and very fitting.

  As of December 2005, US President George W. Bush had issued 69 presidential pardons. The following is a partial list.

  • Alan Dale Austin (1987 misapplication of mortgage funds)
  • Bruce Louis Bartos (1987 transportation of a machine gun in foreign commerce)
  • David Thomas Billmyer (1978 military conviction for making a false claim)
  • Carl E. Cantrell (1966 moonshining)
  • Charles Winston Carter (1964 conspiracy to steal government property)
  • Meredith Elizabeth Casares (1989 embezzlement of US Postal Service funds)
  • Charles Russell Cooper (1959 bootlegging)
  • William Charles Davis (1983 income tax evasion)
  • Paul Jude Donnici (1993 transmission of wagering information)
  • Gerald Douglas Ficke (1992 money laundering)
  • Harper James Finucan (1980 marijuana possession with intent to distribute)
  • Joseph Daniel Gavin (1979 military insubordination, drunkenness, threats, and other offenses)
  • Samuel Wattie Guerry (1984 food stamp fraud)
  • Charles E. Hamilton (1989 mail fraud)
  • Brianna Lea Haney (1991 failure to report monetary instruments)
  • David Custer Heaston (1988 false statement)
  • Bobby Frank Kay Sr. (1959 moonshining)
  • Richard Ardell Krueger (1979 mail fraud and 1980 false statement on a loan application)
  • Raul Marin (1982 failure to appear in court)
  • Melvin L. McKee (1982 conspiracy to make false statements on a loan application)
  • Charles McKinley, (1950 moonshining)
  • Michael Mark McLaughlin (1983 mail fraud and conspiracy)
  • Michael Robert Moelter (1988 illegal gambling business)
  • Billie Curtis Moore (1977 income tax evasion)
  • Richard Arthur Morse (1963 transportation of a stolen vehicle)
  • Kenneth Lynn Norris (1993 unlawful disposal of hazardous waste)
  • Donald Lee Pendergrass (1964 armed bank robbery)
  • Fred Dale Pitzer (1976 transportation of falsely made securities)
  • Charles Blurford Power (1948 transportation of a stolen vehicle)
  • James Edward Reed (1975 marijuana possession with intent to distribute)
  • Cecil John Rhodes (1981 false statement on a loan application)
  • Ernest Rudnet (1992 conspiracy to file false tax returns)
  • Gary L. Saltzburg (1995 theft of government property)
  • John Gregory Schillace (1988 conspiracy to possess cocaine for distribution)
  • Russell Don Sell (1995 aiding and abetting a false statement on a loan application)
  • Scott LaVerne Sparks (1989 theft of government property)
  • Wendy St. Charles (1984 conspiracy to trade narcotics and cocaine distribution)
  • David Lloyd St. Croix (1989 disposal of stolen explosives)
  • Johnson Heyward Tisdale (1994 food stamp fraud)
  • Joseph William Warner (1995 arson on an Indian reservation)
  • Jimmy Lee Williams (false statements on a loan application)
• 

  Shining One

  >At what point is the age of accountability, in the case of children born and raised in an environment where Christianity is at best unknown, and at worst misrepresented? And what happens to those who die before that age? There are millions who die in that situation every year.
  
  Your just gonna have to trust God on that one! Why is it you unbelievers think you have to have all the answers from scripture in order to believe? Perhaps its because you have never had a 'relationship' instead of a dead religion?
  Rex
• 

  atypical

  Is God capable of trusting us, since we have not been given answers to these questions? If we can trust God when we don't see any evidence of his love, can he forgive us when we doubt? Or are our standards higher than his?
• 

  wozadummy

  Oh "shining one" I suspect your thinking is as black and white as your avatar - anger ,depressive and cyclic thoughts which belie your obvious un christian way in communicating with others who may be wrestling with life and it's complexities.

  How about this true story:

  At age eight a JW girl is sexually abused by her father for years till she started menstuating and was only free from him for fear she might get pregnant, the mother knew about this and proxied her daughter. All those years she would pray out loudly and in her little heart in desperation for the pain to end.

  Is this then evidence that she was at fault with god, her faith was not pure in your cruel opinion?

  As I suspect you will come back with some dogmatic ,ignorant , in human and un godly statement ,so I presume you to be an angry lonely and depressive fool crying for attention!