Considering Leaving? Consider Larc's comments..

by DannyBear 50 Replies latest jw friends

  • DannyBear
    DannyBear

    Maybe this is the time, to stand up and be counted. Larc says it so well in this e-mail to me:

    ****Thank you for your kind words and your recognition of me via e mail, on
    the board. Yes, I still read what is going on.

    I am not disheartened. I was a few weeks ago, and so is/was Maximus.
    Now, I am just plain disgusted. When someone puts up a picture of a man
    with a four foot dick made out of sand, when a man brags about posting
    while under the influence of drugs, when a man puts up a cartoon of a
    farmer fucking a lamb, when someone shows a picture of a rabbit fucking
    a chicken, it is not a place to bring a doubting Witness. When people
    are addressed as dipfuck, asshole, looser, lyer, and hypocrite, it is
    not the place for rationale dialogue.

    I agree with the last part of your e mail. I would never bring a
    doubting Witness to the board.

    By the way, if there is a way to transfer my e mail to the board, feel
    free to do so.****

    I think his words pretty well sum it up. What are you going to do about it, put it all off on Simon, or take a stand? Demanding civility and respect for each other, is not a call for censorship, just common decency. Stand up and be counted!

    DannyBear

  • Introspection
    Introspection

    Well Danny, there's already a new forum made for that, so what else can you do? The fact is you can't control what people will say. I think that when a group/board gets to a certain size you're bound to run into these kinds of issues.

    Of course, considering how many members are registered I am guessing most lurks. If everyone just posts once in a while, then those who make such posts will simply be drowned out. Perhaps on one level it just goes to show that you can't "rely" on any "group." (note the quotation marks)

    "Soy un perdedor
    I'm a loser baby, so why don't you kill me? (get crazy with the cheese whiz)" - Loser, by Beck Hansen

  • Richie
    Richie

    I agree with you DannyBear!!! I lately wondered where Simon was; is he really monitoring this site? There should be "no freedom of expression" on this board if it borders on obscenity and plain indecency. If they wish to be vulgar and sexually explicit, there are more porn sites on the internet than someone could count for a lifetime!!

    :*) Richie

    You are the music as long as the music last...............

  • Seeker
    Seeker

    For every lurking JW who is shocked by the use of "foul" language (no such thing, really, but in the minds of some it can be dirty), there is another lurking JW who isn't offended whatsoever, but exults in the freedom of speech made evident by such language.

    Remember, there is no such thing as a loyal JW who comes here -- just by showing up they are being rebellious. A JW who is being rebellious might find free speech intoxicating.

    Don't let the fundys color our view of the world. For them, everything is dirty and they go around in a constant state of disgust at their fellow humans. Most lurking JWs will recoil in horror at such types for they represent the same repressed actions they are used to at the Kingdom Hall.

    You'll notice that I rarely use language that will offend others, yet I fully support the right of others to say what they want. That freedom of speech, something we never had at Kingdom Halls, is wonderful, and something that will attract more lurking JWs than will repel them. For every blue-nose who writes a huffy email to someone saying, "Well, I never!", there are dozens more lurking here enjoying the freedom they have never been able to experience before.

  • JanH
    JanH

    Thanks, Seeker.

    This is the same discussion that went over and over and over on H2O. If we're just 99% JWs, then we can provide a good witness to JWs. Good armchair psychology, eh? LOL. If the whiners had provided detailed articles about the WTS for years, had actively been running support groups for exJWs and had been running their own sites and participated on such forums for a few years, their opinions would perhaps carry some weight.

    Rest of my comments on these whiners in adult board: http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.asp?id=11222&site=3

    Feel free to follow up there.

    - Jan
    --
    "Doctor how can you diagnose someone with Obsessive Compulsive Disorder and then act like I had some choice about barging in here right now?" -- As Good As It Gets

  • DannyBear
    DannyBear

    Seeker,

    I find your reasoning a little hard to understand. You profer that no language is 'foul', that it is only in the minds of the beholder, that it becomes so. Really hard for me swallow this line of reasoning.

    For one, if an invited (or uninvited) guest showed up in your living room, spouting profanity, calling you and your family member's names as listed by Larc, what would you do? Stand by and allow this attacker to spout his venom. All the while reminding your loved ones 'its only dirty, if you think it is'? Although my perception of your comments tends to make me think, you have hard time with any sort of confrontation, almost bordering on pacifisim, I cannot imagine you allowing this senario, without taking some kind of firm action.

    Freedoms are relative. We all must abide by some governor of our deeds, otherwise we be in anarchy. Is this the type of freedom you espouse? Not, iam sure.

    Those who continue to display a complete disregard for the feelings and sensitivity of other's in this regard....are truly in every sense of the word anarchists. Subverting or trying to overthrow the intended purpose of this forum.

    Like Richie says above, there are 1,000's of internet sites dedicated, to individual cuss words, let alone sexually explicit material on the net. Why set off bombs in this place, dedicated to ex-jw's trying to recover, from another form of abuse. Because that is all this vile 'free speech' agenda is ABUSE. Abuse offered because someone thinks he now get away with it. Bulldust friend.

    Danny

  • bigboi
    bigboi

    Hey Danny:

    How are ya? I'm glad to see you back here. I agree with your assessment of the situation. I'm sorry to hear that ol Larc is gone. I enjoyed his wit and going back and forth with that old timer. Everyone has their place here and I hope he comes back.

    I think Seeker has a point, but generallly it is the more "enlightened" ones here that often whne, cry and insult anyone that has an opposing opinion from one of theirs. I think that is the real problem. I've been called all those insults you've mentioned. If I or anyone else outside of certain posters' circle would call anyone something like that we would almost immediately have been branded the most despicable posters ever.

    The lastest episode with Kent was a prime example. Kent went after a poster on a personal level ascribing obscene song lyrics to her, just for what she says here on the board. All of his supporters came out the woodwork to downplay what he did. It wasn't that bad because Kent did it. Surely Kent can't mean any harm by it because he's one of us and he's Kent. If you still think he was wrong after we've told you he wasn't then you are being too sensitive. If that had been someone else those same posters woud have been in an uproar. The whole senario would have played out in a totally opposite manner. Kent's crew would have given none of the constructive crticism that Kent recieved, rather they would have shown their hypocrisy and completely condemened the offense, especially if it was directed at one of them.

    That's the main problem with this board. The gang-mentality hypocrisy that goes on here is appalling.

    ONE....

    bigboi

    "life's a bitch a with a g-string and a twelve pack of Busch."

  • Seeker
    Seeker

    DannyBear,

    It is one thing to say that no word in and of itself is 'dirty' and quite another to justify personal attacks. I said nothing about the latter, so your illustration hardly applies. I am against personal attacks. I have always said to attack the argument, not the person.

    My reasoning on words themselves not being dirty is simple: Is the word 'truck' dirty? Not at all. Little kids play with trucks and parents think nothing of it. Is the word 'puck' dirty? Not at all, it's the focal point of a hockey game and a character in Shakespeare. Yet put an 'f' in front of '...uck' and suddenly you have a 'dirty' word? Clearly this is something society decides, and is not something inherent to the word itself. Is that word dirty to someone who speaks Urdu? No, has no inherent meaning, until society explains that 'this is a dirty word.'

    So if it's only a societal judgment that makes one word dirty and another similar word clean, each of us as individuals have the choice to reject that societal judgment. Remember, there is nothing about the inherent word itself that is dirty, just what society decides. I have therefore chosen to decouple meaning from those words that society finds offensive. They no longer offend me because I choose not to be offended. It is a choice, and I made it. However, I realize that most people don't think things through to this degree, and they accept whatever society tells them to accept, and thus they continue to be offended by these words. For their sake, I usually avoid using those words, since I prefer not to offend. But for myself, there is nothing about such words that is in the least bit offensive.

    Hope that explains what I mean.

    As for JWs who come here, I meant what I said. The wide world is full of things that a loyal JW will find offensive. We can't shield them forever. They need to grow up and realize that all their JW judgmental attitudes toward 'worldly' things aren't necessarily valid. They aren't used to free speech, but I'm sure a sizable percentage of them are glad to see such free speech in action after being held down for so long. It wouldn't surprise me in the least to find out that just as many JWs are attracted to this place by the use of 'dirty' language as are repelled. Remember, only those offended tend to speak up. The contented majority just enjoy themselves here.

    So if you are personally offended by the use of such language, I will respect your personal feelings. But I don't think it's a correct argument to say that if we don't curtail our language we will scare all the JWs away. It is my opinion that we will scare more JWs away by clamping down on free speech. JWs have had enough of that behavior to last a lifetime.

    And finally, to reiterate my point from before, I am NOT talking about personal attacks on each other, something I abhor.

  • DannyBear
    DannyBear

    Hello Big,

    Iam begining to think that many of these abuser's, really in their own minds eye, truly believe that they are entitled to special dispensation, for thier misconduct. Somehow they have devined that because they have or are prominent in cyberspace, written some essay's, or run a website, they have more credibility than the next guy.

    How they can come to such a conclusion is beyond me. How do they make the strech? How do they know what each individual who posts here, is doing in behalf of ex-jw's. How do they know what trials, sicknesses, life struggels may prevent someone from doing more, so called, credible work?

    In fact to point to some obscure web page, or some little didy of an essay, as credible work, is imo the heigth of arrogance and pride. It really displays the mindset, the motives for their efforts. Is it to help reveal the truth about the 'truth', or is it to make a name for themselves? See look at me, look at how hard I have worked. You other dummies are not fit to address me. What load of hogwash.

    Small minded and narrow blinders...are fogging up their reality glasses.

    Danny

  • DannyBear
    DannyBear

    Seeker,

    Thanks for your reasoned and polite response.

    I believe that I understand what you are trying to say. You believe that in a better world (paradise), people would not take offense to something as inanimate as words (themselves). You believe simply by controling your own mind (thinking) about the meaning for certain words, will in effect negate any bad conotation to them. Right?

    If so, this is my response. Words often do not by and of themselves give real meaning. Take for example the word 'desert'. Unless you read that word in some sort of context, the writer must explain weather he/she means 'desert'...chocolate cake after dinner, or 'desert'..the sahara. Unlike FUCK YOU, DIPFUCK, ASSHOLE...these words stand pretty much alone by themselves. In and of themselves they are simply a compilation of letters. But there meaning is pretty clear. When the writer uses any of these unambiguos words, and then proceeds to add further context, by directing them at or about someone in particular, they no longer are innoffensive in the least. The writer has made an assalt. There can be no other interpretation of the writer's intent. He has by there very use, said to his listener, your feeling don't matter, you are unworthy of respect and dignity.

    No amount of explanation or excuses will absolve the writer from liability for the resultant hurt. Even if the receiver is not offended, those who share or witness the public display, can and will be offended. What is sad is that the writer knows this fact, and yet because he see's himself as above the maddening crowd, he persists in doing it. Snubing his nose at all the lessor ones, who may well be hurt.

    Danny

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