Another JW Suicide

by orangefatcat 40 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  Wasanelder Once

  rebel8,

  Your point is well taken, No, it needn't be mental illness that brings on suicidal thoughts. It is though, I'm sure you'll agree, not a healthy state of mind. Again I say, we only assume that it is some WT Society induced guilt involved. Who though, really knew this man's state of mind? What if he were involved in some illegal activity? Maybe he was impotent and never spoke with anyone about it? Maybe he just didn't like himself becasue of self esteem issues. What if he had an arguement with his wife that she wont mention? What if he just wanted to get even with someone who hurt him. We have no idea. Just to pin it on Armageddon anxiety is projection I think. We cannot, and in the name of fairness should not, blame others for his actions. We are all responsible for our actions. To lay blame based on speculation is to remove responsiblity for his actions from him to another. Hey, I hate Martha Stewart but that doesn't mean she had anything to do with it. My point is, its not the pressures that lead to suicide, its the lack of perspective and coping skills. People cannot always tell its coming.

  I have never, NEVER, in 35 years as a witness and an elder, once met someone that anxious about Armageddon. Maybe I'm one of the lucky ones?

  It is a human tragedy and his irrational fear of not being a good enough husband and father could have been just as compelling as Armageddon anxiety. You dont have to be a witness to feel like crap emotionally, but it helps.

  I have a young friend who is handsome, clever and productive, attending the university etc, and I had a two month period where he needed to talk, badly. I had to keep constant tabs on him because he was talking suicide. (contrary to popular belief if someone talks about suicide, it doesn't mean they WONT do it.) He was so full of self doubt and needed someone to tell him he was ok. He was calling and listing all the reasons he had for not being alive. I went to the campus mental health dept. and they said they couldnt do anything unless he came in and said he was suicidal. That's bullshit. He wasn't going to do that. They said he'd have to take a number and wait, no appts. I thought, wait, is this the WTS or the University. Liability concerns reach deep in the heartland.

  Respectfully and with deepest sympathy for this family and the issue at hand.

  W.Once
• 

  carla

  My sympathies to the family and friends.

  wasonceanelder,

  I never was a jw, never will be. From researching and reading these boards for a number of years now, I cannot see how anybody could not come the conclusion that the wt is not responsible for the mental health issues of it's members. Look at the problems they have when leaving and even being out for many, many years. To try to come to terms with everything they believed in being false is difficult enough, now try and have 'normal' relationships with these people who you were trained to believe were of satan for your entire life. I believe the wt breeds some sort of phycopathy in it's members. I see constantly how people have a difficult time with what the rest of us consider 'normal emotions'. The wt does something to stifle these emotions and feelings. It does something to their capacity to love. To love themselves and others. I mean no offense by this, though it will be taken as such.

  I have seen with my own eyes the change occuring in my own husband since becoming a jw. It is not for the better. When one has to keep pushing down normal affections for friends and family, even ones own child, something has to give somewhere, sometime. There will be changes within the persons mental stability or lack thereof.

  I don't think I have gone more than three months in a number of years without hearing about a jw or exjw suicide. Maybe the longest was close to six months. When my friends or family ask 'how's the board?' (meaning this or any of the boards) I sadly often have to respond, 'another suicide'. They are astounded by this, that this is an ongoing problem and I have so often responded with that answer.

  Yes, suicide can have many reasons that only the victim really knows. But the policies and doctrines of the wt have much to answer to.
• 

  gumby

  They do have a prevetion against sucide. You attempt suicide, you get disfellowshipped.

  This COULD and DOES happen.....but is not always the case. In a "Question from Readers" it was asked if a person who commits suicide will have a chance to be resurrected. The answer was that nobody can reallly say, and only Jehovah could be the judge of that. It said that everyones reasons for suicides were different. It said some are not in their right mind at that time and their actions may be out of their control....hence Jehovah would understand this. What it DIDN'T say was WHY a god who is so protective of his people, doesn't intervein at such a time as this. It also didn't explain why the many who are disfellowshipped when they do things they wouldn't normally do.... are not ALSO forgiven by the elders since they agree upon the fact Jehovah may forgive one who attempts/succeds suicide. Evidently....they feel some who attempt suicide do so out of selfishness or anger that is within their control and had they practiced the "fruits of the spirit" and godly suggestions, they would not be in the predicament they are now in. I suppose some of this latter statement has some truth to it. If the Jehovahs Witnesses did not frown on outside help from professionals dealing with coping with anxieties in life.....their would no doubt be less suicides and depression amoung them. They would prefer a person to read their journals and seek the help of their local elders and Jehovahs spirit.....rather than seek professional "wordly" advise. Gumby
• 

  nikan8ter

  My heart aches for the poor brother who felt like he had no choice other than suicide, and hope that his wife and child are able to find love and support, even if it is from the jdubs. Maybe as they heal, his despiration will resonate with them and they will see clearly the harmfull effects of the WTS teachings.

  (((((((((((((AuldSoul)))))))))))) Thank you so much for sharing with all of us. I am very impressed with your ability to take control - It takes guts to ask for help, this world is a better place with you here, and so is this discussion board. We do need you here!
• 

  codeblue

  (((Auld Soul)))

  My thoughts and prayers are with you.

  Codeblue
• 

  orangefatcat

  Auld soul many *************** hugs, *************

  while reading all these posts there is no doubt in my mind that the Organization does play a part in why a person commits suicide. Perhaps by chemical imbalances and other areas of mental illness.

  As for myself I have been treated since 1971 for severe depression. I have on two occasions made up my mind to commit suicide. I don't know why I was so overwhelmed to do this, but after much soul searching it all boils down to the life I have lived. From an early age, I was upset with life. My father was a violent alcoholic, my mom was a drug addict and was involved in the occult. I have many nightmares of my early life. When my father sobered up and decided he didn't want to die from liver disease, he turned to God. His mom and dad were JWs. so that is what my father became and as a result we kids were forced to be too. or when we would be 18 yrs old we were going to be thrown out of our home. We really had no choice but to comply. So that was so loving on his part. I at first was mesmerized by the witnesses. But the memories of life ate away at me, my dad wanted respect and I couldn't respect him because of the things he did to us . He alway smack me in the back of the head and say,"that 's for nothing , wait til u do something", I hated it and it hurt my head badly. As a witness, my father never hesitated to tell me I was stupid. I apparently was the child to be picked on constantly. I wondered if it was because I was first born or from the fact he hated me because he raped my mom when she was 15 and he took it out on me. As an elder he was worse and demanded my respect.. I will never know he was like that to me.

  I had problems in school, I thought I was stupid because my father told me me I was stupid until one day a teacher said to me terry your not stupid your very intelligent but you think your stupid because someone has been telling you that for along time. I was always depressed I hated home life . I was pressured into giving up my education because witnesses don't need educations they need to preach and teach. With 1975 coming with in 10 years my parents wanted me to pioneer. Like a dope I left school and pioneered and i was still depressed. When I was nineteen I left home to move to Montreal, just to get away from my father. I wanted to stay to help mom, but he was hell bent on making my life unhappy. They made me take my 16 yr old sister to montreal with me. yuck yuck yuck and dad would talk to her all the time, she was daddy's little girl and if I did anything she would tell him. It never stopped he was like my shadow. The year was 1970 and by 1971, my depression was compounded by pressure from my congregation overseer to set a perfect example to the cong of french brothers. Everything I did was under scrutiney. I recall placing many books one morning I think it was 14 and about 17 magazines and I was exstatic and sure enough I was told I was bragging and made others feel inferior and bad because they couldn't place that much literature. It never ended . My sister was chosen to special pioneer and I wasn't. It did bother me for a while and then I really didn't care as she w as no longer around to report to daddy and mommy and the elders. God it never ended. I was 19 and was already on valium and some other tranquilizers. Then I married in 73 what an error that was and I tried to break it off but was told that once you make an engagement it was considered tatamount to marriage. I was told I had to marry him or I would be disfellowshipped. So again I ended up married and unhappy to someone I didn't really love. My depression worsened over the years, in 1975 I lost a baby through ectopic pregnancy, I nearly bled to death and the doctors lost me three times on the operating table and I fought to come back and the doctor said I had a strong will to live. in 1976 I went out to committ suicide by driving off the Champlian Bridge in Quebec, the only thing that stopped me was I went to say goodbye to my best firend and she guessed I was going to do something to my self, just by what I was saying. I don't recall what I told her but it prevented me from doing the suicide. She kept me at her home and talked with me the whole day and work on my body pain. She was a reflexologist. She was a super friend and she died when in her late fourties. What a lose.

  I had severel breakdowns, my health was very bad, I hated the cong. and wanted out. Still I stayed hoping to get better. I never happened and even after leaving the organizaiton in 1999 and leaving my ex husband I still have severe depression. I don't know why and I have been tested many times. I was told I had erratic brain patterns but not eliptigenic. I was on anti siezure meds and more tranqiiliers so many names I can't remember all the names of them. The pressure of trying to be a good witness for the 28yrs I was married killed me inside. I cried all the time and begged God for some release. Then one day I woke up and knew exactly what to do. Leave the organization and my marriage. The elders I approached them several times for help but they never cared or came to speak with me and I knew it was becasue of my ex husband . He was such a hypocrite and still is and i am happy to be rid of him and the congregation. And that lying WTS.

  Still I am on several medications for depression and anxiety and morphine and several other kinds of drugs. Sometimes I have tried to stop taking my medications but I fall apart very easily. So all I can deduce is this, that my depression started before I was a witness it escalated after being a witness, and now still I suffer from the mental health problem, I haven't had a suicidal thought since the year 1991 and am happy in my life and marriage yet still I fight everyday just to get through a day and try and stay sane.

  I can let you decide what the reason is for my mental health and if you have an answer let me know . I have been seeing a psychiatrist since 1971 til this time in my life. Some days its worse than other days. But i try and take one day at a time and remember that I love life, and people and God's creations and all the lovely animals . So what the hell is wrong with me ???

  love Orangefatcat. sorry it was so long.
• 

  atypical

  So sorry to hear about this. I'm glad there was good support at the funeral. And AuldSoul, I am very sorry for you, too - but I applaud your effort to make things better.

  Wasanelderonce - seriously, I don't think anyone means that the society is responsible for every suicide. But the fact is that they power they wield over people's lives has been used irresponsibly over and over, especially when it comes to those with chemical imbalances or other mental health issues.
• 

  ballistic

  I've lost several people to ... death. Sometimes it is not clearly defined why people die. My father dies supposedly due to blood but was it because his injuries were so horrific and not whether blood was refused or not? Who knows. My best mate talked about suicide. He was a young music fan, a painter and decorator, and the most decent guy you ever met. But a week after his collegues expressed concerns to me, he hit a truck coming the other way on the other side of the road (he drove down the wrong side of the road). Some of my secrets were laid to rest with him. Is the society responsible? Can I prove it in a court of law? No. All these things happen and you wonder.
• 

  zions watchman

  I must have missed something... did they just sit on the tracts, did they leave a suicide note or was it just an accident?????
• 

  Wasanelder Once

  atypical,

  Have you seen or experienced this: When someone is seriously ill, including mentally, people withdraw from them? It almost seems as if this is some sort of inherited survival strategy within the genes. I know that when somone is terminally ill, people often back off. It always struck me as selfish, self sparing. I understand the desire to avoid the pain of the situation, but I dont know if I can reconcile it with Christianity. This is so true with people with mental illness, or depression. People, not just JW's, tend to back off and leave be. This isn't the best strategy.

  Yes, the Society has a lot of power and uses it. I still believe that they only have the power we give them. There is a majority in the truth who look forward to the "Picnic with a Panda" world than the "End of this System Judgement" one. They are quite happy and do not feel controlled or suicidal. Anyone, in any religion can have self esteem issues. Yes, the society discouraged psychiatrists in years past, a sin to be reckoned with, but now it is the fricken rage to see one or have meds, even among the Witnesses in this area. If what you say is true, I hope that those under the spell of the athoratative WTS will see it for what it is and break freee. I still cannot believe that the society is any more responsible for the suicides of others than their cable service that shows such hopelessness. Just watching "Lifetime" movies, or the news itself can send people over the edge.....

  again, my sympathys to the family. We should keep our eyes on those we love for the warning signs in case they are visible. Most often they are not.

  Best wishes to you and respect for your opinion,

  W.Once