what is the definition of a christian? (page 5)

trevor

Shining one

On another thread started by you - referring to me you state.

I believe you actively hate Christianity by ANY definition.

You have many beliefs many of which are based on your opinion and like the statement above are not based on fact. Hate is a very strong emotion and I reserve it for extreme situations.

I view Christianity as one of many religions alongside Buddhism, Taoism, Hinduism and so on. They all strive to make sense of our existence give life a long term purpose. They do both good and harm to peoples minds and lives but I do not hate or even disapprove of people striving to do the right thing and find approval. It is just that I do not accept that the Bible even gets close to explaining what is really going on in the universe.

You have chosen to take the Bible literally and endorse every idea it puts forth however contradictory. This causes you to clash with other ‘Christians’ on this board who take a more benign view of what constitutes a Christian.

Your vigorous attempts to vanquish all counter arguments does cause me to wonder what really motivates you. I know you believe that you have ‘the truth’ and therefore everyone else must be wrong but you are thinking from inside a box. Until you are able to step outside and look beyond religious dogma you will never understand that morality is the responsibility of humans.

We are defined by how we live our lives, treat others and contribute to the outworking of human evolution - not by a label that we wear.

trevor

peacefulpete

To follow Nakissos' last comment, the concept of relationship with Christ seems as foreign to Paul as the JW's simple intellectual acknowlwdgement. Paul and at least some other early Christians identified themselves with the Christ figure in some sort of posession/adoptionist election. Christ was in them not just with them or known by them. Christ spoke through them, lived through them as he was viewed by formal Adoptionists as having lived through Jesus. Notice Phillipians 1

26 that your boasting may abound in Christ Jesus in me through my presence again to you.

lovelylil

Pete,

Thanks for bringing out that point of "christ in you". And the fact that it is not just an intellectual state as the JW's believe. "Christ living in you" is what some Christians today mean when they say that they are in a relationship with him. Sometimes we do not use that exact term because lets face it, people already think we are strange. It is easier for some who do not share this experience to understand what we mean by having a relationship with Christ when we use the statement - personal relationship rather than saying Christ in you. Some Christians do not have this experience immediately after their converstion but it could take time, sometimes even years.

The relationship we talk about is one of deep personal commitment and knowing that person as a close intimate friend. And it includes knowing their thoughts on matters as well and walking daily with them. But yes you are right Christ is in you, if in fact you are a Christian and you would know this by the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. Unfortunately not all claiming to be Christian have this experience at all.

I don't know if you have had this experience - but I have and many Christians I know. When it does happen it is a truly amazing experience that will transform your life forever, making you a completely new creation.

Also the bible uses other terms to for the Christian experience as it says we should be in "union with Christ" or that they (Christians) should "know" the true God and the one sent forth Jesus. So if any say they are in union with Christ or Know him - or have a relationship with him, it does not negate the fact they they have Christ living in them.

Narkissos

the bible uses other terms to for the Christian experience as it says we should be in "union with Christ"

Just in passing, "in union with Christ" is the NWT mistranslation of en Khristô, "in Christ".

I say mistranslation because it kills the asymmetry of the non-commutative Greek expression and makes reciprocal or mutual phrases like "I in you and you in me" appear tautological ("I in union with you and you in union with me," the second clause adding nothing to the first one).

lovelylil

oops, my bad.

thats right Narkissos, thanks for your post clearing that up. That is why to a JW "in union" means simply following Christ's teachings and words and not having his spirit dwell inside them which is the real Christian experience.

jgnat

What a lovely thread. Thank you Narkissos and Peaceful Pete for the linguistic and historical context.

Any contribution I might have would pale in comparison.

Big Tex

We are defined by how we live our lives, treat others and contribute to the outworking of human evolution - not by a label that we wear

Good point Trevor. I can't help but feel this simple point is missed by many people who cling to a set of religious doctrine rather than the message. As the song says, "People hearing without listening."

Christ taught love of God and love of others and, to woefully paraphrase, if we choose to do these things everything else falls in line.

Still and all, I wouldn't mind a burning bush now and then for a quick little conversation.

Apostate Kate

John 14:17-18 the Spirit of truth, whom the world can't receive; for it doesn't see him, neither knows him. You know him, for he lives with you, and will be in you. I will not leave you orphans. I will come to you. Jesus

For those of us who have asked and received, the experience of Christ goes beyond and deeper than words. Jesus comes to me. His Spirit has manifest in my life. He is more than an angel, more than a religion, more than a dead man.

Jesus is the Word of God. He was before He came down here. When he was here, he spoke to us. When he died and rose from the grave, he spoke to us, when he rose to heaven he spoke to us. He called to Paul from heaven and Pauls life was forever changed.

I asked my witness "sisters" when did it become illegal to call on Jesus?

.Joshua 1:5 There shall not any man be able to stand before you all the days of your life. As I was with Moses, so I will be with you; I will not fail you, nor forsake you. YHWH

John 14:27 Peace I leave with you. My peace I give to you; not as the world gives, give I to you. Don't let your heart be troubled, neither let it be fearful.

"I will not leave you orphans. I will come to you". Jesus

acadian

Well, if the word "chist" means "anointed one", it stands to reason "christian" means the same thing. Now was Jesus a christian, NO, acording to acts he was of the "Sect of the Nazarene's" which were just, one of many groups of Essene's Many profess to believe in Jesus, but doesn't scripture say that the demons believe and yet shudder? Jesus said be my follower. that denotes "ACTION" an external element (the way you LIVE your life, not just the way you think), where belief is internal, so if you talk the talk you need to walk the walk, literially. If scripture says Jesus was a "Nazarene", wouldn't his follower's be "Nazarene's" also, not "Christian" which is a name given by outsiders? Acadian ~~~ of the simple minded class ~~~

LittleToe

Didier/Pete:

I agree with many of your points, as summed up in one of Pete's comments:.

Christ was in them not just with them or known by them.

Hence I don't believe that you can leave it simply at the inner "Christ", for that would potentially give it limited location - "pockets of Christ" here and there in lives touched, to choose a metaphor.

Acadian:I agree that action is required, but does worthwhile action (in the Christian "salvation" context) precede or procede from a love of Christ?

Trevor:
I also agree with your comments on dogma.

While we all use some framework or other to define our subjective reality and translate our environment from our senses to "us", I believe that the inability to appreciate other frameworks and perspectives is a pretty lonely one.

Dang, I'm doing far too much agreeing around here. Let's astutely avoid Chris' burning bush!!!

what is the definition of a christian?

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