by Augustin 184 Replies latest watchtower bible
ozziepost
When you are ready to meet at Moore's then let me know. Your comments about the relevance of a BA shows your ignorance of matters academic. My BA degree consisted of two majors: Religious Studies and Philosophy both Eastern and Western and so my degree carries considerable weight in the field of Theology and other related disciplines.
By the way what degrees have you earned as you seem to proclaim yourself as an expert in such academic matters.?
scholar JW
Forscher
Rolf Furuli's website with all the relevant information is very easy to find because I am a dummy when it comes to computers and if I can find it then a person of your great intelligence should have no difficulty.
If Furuli is as you acknowledge qualified to read the documents then pray tell where does this leave the amateur Jonsson who is not a scholar, not a academic and is unskilled in any of the ancient languages. Why is it that you listen to a amateur Jonsson when you should at least give a professional, Furuli a fair go? I am well qualified to give opinions on such matters as I have earnt undergraduate and postgraduate degrees in Religious Studies.
scholar JW
outoftheorg
Don't worry about the 'celebrated WT scholars because you are not one of us and you are by your admission an 'outsider' so the matter or relevance of such an elite group is frankly none of your business. You can however benefit by the research and writing of this elite group by reading the publications of the faithful and discreet slave and that must be sufficient for all as it is for me.
I personally content myself with being priviliged of being a part or member of this beautiful and grand organization doing the Lord's will even though I personally do not understand the mysteries and secrets of God's people as to the nature of such 'celebrated WT scholars'.
scholar JW
Alan F
You are an outsider and do not have any knowledge of our organization or how it functions. You are by your admission an agnostic which says much about your Christian heritage and upbringing and you have no spiritual outlook or vision. I care nought about your opinions of the 'celebrated WT scholars' and you are quite free to have your own opinions about this matter. I frankly could not care less about what you think because you are an apostate, a person without hope, faith and love.
Regarding your posts 4466 and 4468 I have told you repeatedly that I will attend to such matters at my own convenience and not yours. Such opinions are not of great priority and because everyone sucks up to you and thinks you are are so great does not impress me in the slightest. Your buffoonery, ill manners and lack of respect reflects poorly on your character as a man and a person who was once exposed tol Christian virtue. You should take stock of youself and wake up to yourself.
As I have said when I am good and ready your pleas of help will be attended to in a Christlike manner so you must exercise patience. Scholar has to reply to many other posts on this forum and has a busy life of study, work, service, meetings, research, writing, contemplation, meditation and other good works and noble deeds.
scholar JW
Leolaia
The only personage I bow down to or pay homage is our Great God Jehovah, the Sovereign of the Universe who seest fit to use humble and faithful men and women to do his will and praise him. Such worship and adoration is lacking in those who formerly walked and dedicated their lives to praise Him having since defected, renounced their faith and now oppose those loyal to Him. You should be so ashamed!
Perhaps it is you with fellow apostates who worship an unknown God having no religion or semblance of what is Truth and Beautiful.
scholar JW
*** w50 3/1 p. 68 par. 6 A Call to Praise ***
Men and women who have achieved fame in financial, political, social, military, religious and athletic fields are held constantly in the public eye and are lauded for their works. Without protest from the clergy, who indeed often join them, the people continue to forsake God’s law. They magnify the prominent and wise men of this world which lies under the wicked one, Satan the Devil. (1 John 5:19; Matt. 4:8, 9) The unhappy results that have always come from praising men have no retarding influence on this misdirected worship.
*** w51 7/1 p. 392 Shun the Snare of Creature Worship! ***
A mild yet subtle form of idolatry that must be guarded against is the practice some make of applauding excessively when their favorite speaker or some prominent individual among the Lord’s people addresses an assembly. The mere stepping of this individual upon the platform sometimes brings a round of applause. If this person gives a poor talk and receives a maximum ovation, yet a little-known speaker gives an excellent talk and receives a minimum applause, is this not a step toward creature worship?
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w53 5/1 p. 259 Why Maturity Is Lacking ***If in his sermons the pastor calls attention to the works and achievements of man, likes to quote the "great" men of the world, whether in business, politics, art or science; if he thus builds up creature worship, can he blame his "flock" for wanting to see such heroes in person?
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w59 10/1 p. 607 Questions From Readers ***Our publishing work is not done to glorify any men or to give them a name of prominence before this world, depending upon the name of men in order to induce a study of God’s Word with the aid of the Watch Tower Society’s publications. We avoid all kinds of creature worship and anything that would stimulate to creature worship.
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w68 5/15 p. 310 Beware of Idolizing Creatures ***What accounts for this ‘perpetual fact of creature worship,’ as it has been called? Among the various causes that might be mentioned is a feeling of unworthiness on the part of some. This feeling causes them to regard with unreasoning admiration those who have distinguished themselves in such things as music, sports, science or war. It is as if by exalting a fellow human creature they are lifting themselves up also.—Rom. 1:25.
There is evidence for the 537 BCE but you choose to ignore it for have you not heard of Ezra and the Cyrus Cylinder? Does not such evidence permit a calculation of the precise year of the return of the Exiles lor does one just guess a year as is the want of apostates. The date of 538 is simply impossible because it does not give sufficient time for the rertuirn unless the Jews travelled by Qantas.
Both Ezra's account and the Cyrus cylinder places the return in 538 during Cyrus' first year. I have provided specific information for when the Jews returned; there is no guesswork involved. April 538 to October 538 is more than enough time to make the trip, and is the best time of year to do it.
There is no way exegetically to reason that according to Jeremiah 25:12, the seventy years ended in 539 BCE. Have you bothered to check the matter with leading commentaries? The date of 607 is clearly based upon secular evidence because there is evidence for 539, 537 BCE and ; one could quite properly utilize current whimsical Neo-Babylonioan chronology with the proviso that such a paradigm falls short of twenty years and thus combined with the application of the seventy years provide a correction for the existing data leading to the corrected date of 607 BCE. Nice and easy.....
The Society's choice of 607 does not benefit from the established year of 539, and there is no evidence to support 537. All of the evidence conflicts with 607, which is obviously wrong. You need to go back to the drawing board with your interpretation.
The twenty year gap is real because there are two competing methodologies for the Fall and there is a difference of twenty years, that is a fact. WT chronology compared with secular chronology yields a twenty year difference. That is a fact. But scholar, clever as he is can use that error as an advantage to support 607 BCE because scholar in his genius recognized that the error occurs because the seventy years is noty factored into the computation. Hence, using the Neo-Babylonian chronology as constructed by the Jonsson hypothesis simply needs fine tuning or correction because the stupid Babylonians ignored the seventy years. So, inserting the seventy years corrects the pagan Babylylonian by some twenty years with a precise date of 607 for the Fall and the 18th regnal year of Neb uchadnezzer. Scholar is brilliant!
All of the evidence is in support of the clear interpretation that does not introduce the Society's flawed model with its twenty-year gap. Labelling the facts with the 'Jonsson hypothesis' does not make the facts go away. Egyptian chronology, just one more source of many, completely independent of Babylonian chronology indicates the exact same discrepancy with the Society's flawed dates. While it could be argued that both sources could be incorrect, coincidentally having the exact same error at the same time is not possible. 'scholar' is a self-aggrandizing conceited fool who continues to make himself a laughing stock.
Our chronology is based upon a careful understandin g of the theology and history of Jeremiah which is avoided and trivialized by apostates and higher critics. Besides, the said scholar has paid careful attention to leading commentaries on Jeremiah and is fully aware of the issues raised. Have you bothered to consult any commentary on Jeremiah or are you relying relying on ; your own opinion which is rather foolish and stupid. Jeremiah nowhere indicated that the seventy years had begun prior to the actual Fall of Jerusalem for what Jeremiah simply prophesied that the seventy years would be experienced even when writing to earlier exiles. Jeremiah proves this is the case because the seventy hyears was not just some exile but was a period of desolation of the land and that did not occur until the last year of Zedekiah's reign.
You are unable to provide any evidence in support of your dogma, and all of the available evidence supports my interpretation. I have nothing to fear from your rediculous proud remarks. Your comments regarding Jeremiah make no sense, and the context you suggest for Jeremiah's statements to the exiles would confusing and cruel.
During that period of seventy yhears of exile, servitude and desolation would also see other natiolns come under the domination of Babylon as Jeremiah prophesied. So What?
I realise that it is important for you to ignore the actual context of Jeremiah's application of the 70 years, but Daniel pointedly indicates the end of the period when the 'writing was on the wall' for Babylon.
Ezra clearly states that the seventy years would last until the royalty of Persia began to reign and this was not 539 because in that very same context Ezra explained the matter to the first year of Cyrus when he issued that famous decree which led to imminent ending of that seventy years in 537 BCE. You have been hoodwinked by apostate argument. Daniel and Zechariah both treated the seventy years as a finite historical period which ended with the Return of the Jewry in ; 537 BCE and other so-called explanations are simply fallacious, disagreeing with both Jeremiah and Ezra.
It's just lie after lie with you. The Medo-Persians began to reign straight after Babylon's fall, but after an accession period (during which they were indeed reigning), the Jews were allowed to return following Cyrus' decree in first regnal year from around April 538, and were home by October of 538. (October of 537 of course falls in Cyrus' second year, and was after the foundations for the temple had begun in May of 537.) Your continuing to cling to the utterly failed 537 is pathetic in the truest sense.
Scholar jw:
Alan F
You are an outsider and do not have any knowledge of our organization or how it functions. You are by your admission an agnostic which says much about your Christian heritage and upbringing and you have no spiritual outlook or vision. I care nought about your opinions of the 'celebrated WT scholars' and you are quite free to have your own opinions about this matter. I frankly could not care less about what you think because you are an apostate, a person without hope, faith and love.
Regarding your posts 4466 and 4468 I have told you repeatedly that I will attend to such matters at my own convenience and not yours. Such opinions are not of great priority and because everyone sucks up to you and thinks you are are so great does not impress me in the slightest. Your buffoonery, ill manners and lack of respect reflects poorly on ; your character as a man and a person who was once exposed tol Christian virtue. You should take stock of youself and wake up to yourself.
As I have said when I am good and ready your pleas of help will be attended to in a Christlike manner so you must exercise patience. Scholar has to reply to many other posts on this forum and has a busy life of study, work, service, meetings, research, writing, contemplation, meditation and other good works and noble deeds.
scholar JW
Holy f....you sir,are the most arrogant person I have ever had the "pleasure" of meeting.
Oh, and by the way, go careful on the "meditation", you know that it can open up your mind to "demonic posession", don`t you? Well, that`s what I heard (at the KH, so it was probably something that was once written in the WT by your "celebrated watchtower-scholars)...
scholar;
ozziepostThanks for accepting my invitation to meet up. I suggest a Tuesday. Is that convenient?When you are ready to meet at Moore's then let me know. Your comments about the relevance of a BA shows your ignorance of matters academic. My BA degree consisted of two majors: Religious Studies and Philosophy both Eastern and Western and so my degree carries considerable weight in the field of Theology and other related disciplines.
By the way what degrees have you earned as you seem to proclaim yourself as an expert in such academic matters.?
scholar JW
Your comments about the relevance of a BA shows your ignorance of matters academic. My BA degree consisted of two majors: Religious Studies and Philosophy both Eastern and Western and so my degree carries considerable weight in the field of Theology and other related disciplines.
Well, of course I don't consider myself ignorant and so I will beg to differ to your claims of a theological qualification.
By the way what degrees have you earned as you seem to proclaim yourself as an expert in such academic matters.?
Nice try. No, I don't intend engaging a "you show me yours and i'll show you mine" contest. It isn't the point is it/ Rather, as you know, I have often referred to your us of post nominals and the chest thumping of a proud man. Personally I'm not overly concerned with the 607 date; in my view of greater importance is its use by the WT as a key date and it's very inventive part in the arrival at 1914 as a marked date. Still, either way the WT's chronology has been seen over and over again these past few years on JWD to be flawed. Now while we speak of qualifications, I notice you have now taken to using "JW" as a post-nominal. I wonder why? Why not JW as a prefix - but a post nominal???? Surely this is more of the self-promotion like we have seen before. Why not simply "scholar"? Perhaps you use JW as some sort of self-reassurance? You will recall that I've often invited you to "confess" to your local elders that you have been conversing with the likes of me. I somehow believe that you get your kicks out of stirring the pot of JWD. Isn't that true? Never mind, I'm sure it works both ways! Still, now's the opportunity. Shall I invite them to join in our discussion at Moore? cheers, Ozzie (forgotten how to spell my post-nominals class)
Neil,
Accepting that you are busy, would you please do me the courtesy of answering my post before you answer anyone else's. This should give you time to reflect on other's posts later.
You didn’t answer me re my enquiry regarding the following:
If you are truly a scholar I should very much like to peruse any of your past university papers, or any publications in which you have articles appearing or in which your name is cited.
Thank you,
Ian
