Infallibility of Scripture (page 6)

Terry

Don't you realise that your #2a is antithetic to #1, 2b and 3? Only the former is really characteristic of mysticism.

No, I don't. Care to elucidate?

LittleToe

Dagnabbit, Terry, throw me a fricken bone will ya. I like ya and want to agree with ya, but you make it so bl**dy difficult!

While Mysticism may be a component of a given religion, usually it's not. Many religous leaders are about the control. Many of the religous laity thrive under that control With both those groups of people mysticism is often lacking, however not all of those who lead or follow religion are in those groups.

IMHO the WTS attempts to quash any semblence of mysticism by providing black and white answers to everything they can get their grubby little paws on. The JWs provide an extreme example of the aforementioned groups, but even they have some individuals who buck the norm.

Further, getting back to the thread title in particular, IMHO someone taking a mystical approach to any given "sacred text" is usually going to be far less likely to become a fundamentalist.

LT, of the "having a broad brush-strokes day" class.

Terry

While Mysticism may be a component of a given religion, usually it's not. Many religous leaders are about the control. Many of the religous laity thrive under that control With both those groups of people mysticism is often lacking, however not all of those who lead or follow religion are in those groups.
IMHO the WTS attempts to quash any semblence of mysticism by providing black and white answers to everything they can get their grubby little paws on. The JWs provide an extreme example of the aforementioned groups, but even they have some individuals who buck the norm.
Further, getting back to the thread title in particular, IMHO someone taking a mystical approach to any given "sacred text" is usually going to be far less likely to become a fundamentalist.

I like you too, Little Toe (smooooooch!)

THE SOURCE!!

Ask youself the question: What is the _______source______of the information/knowledge/truth of a religion?

Careful! The answer is tricky!

It is never the document upon which the religion rests.

The potency is in the policies, interpretations and ORTHODOXY as administered an policed by the power-brokers of that religion!

THESE PEOPLE MAKE THE WHOLE DAMNED THING UP AND PRETEND IT IS FROM................ELSEWHERE..........MYSTERIOUS AND ELUSIVELY BEYOND THE REACH OF THE ..........LITTLE PEOPLE. What makes a behavior correct or incorrect/right or wrong? The declaration and enforcement of the Mystic!

Terry

A brief treatise on MYSTICISM.

Mysticism begins with a code of "morality" just beyond the reach of humanity. Guilt ensues; man cannot achieve this lofty standard of behavior.

Man is lacking, you see.

??How can man abolish this guilt and live up to the perfect standard of :

1.Oneness with the universe

2.Oneness with God or the great spirit

3.Physical/or/spiritual perfection

???????????????????????????????????

From man's lack, imperfection, failure, impotency and ignorance comes not only an answer, but, a procedure for making himself whole.

Man must take the blame.

Man must humble himself.

Man must identify the TRUE SOURCE of information, perfection, wisdom and atonement.

Hint: Somebody is going to be standing between quivering man and the "answer" to his problems. That somebody is the mystic. He is a broker.

Mystics offer a code of morality requiring SELF-SACRIFICE!

Guess what? Somebody has to stand there and accept the sacrifice/payment ON BEHALF of the greater power!

Historically these go-betweens; these brokers take two forms: SOCIETY or GOD.

INTERMEDIARIES collect the sacrifices.

To participate you must:

1.Accept allegations (about mankind) without proof

2.Refuse to allow your reasoning to find flaws in the procedure

3.Accept as a foundational premise that KNOWLEDGE AND WISDOM AND TRUTH COME FROM:

A. NON-SENSORY

B. NON-RATIONAL

C.NON-DEFINABLE

D. NON-IDENTIFIABLE

Means such as "instinct" or "intuition" or "revelation" or any form of "JUST KNOWING"

Yes, a conversion experience! Then, you just do as you are told. YOUR VALUE comes from the total amount of your SACRIFICE on behalf of the group and the leader. The less of "you" there is; the greater your attributed value to the group. That is why the ultimate TRUE BELIEVER is willing to DIE for his beliefs. Whispering in the ear of the "martyr" is the MYSTIC issuing instructions: 1.How to go to prison 2.How to give a witness 3.How to let their child die as testimony 4.How to strap on the dynamite belt and operate the detonator

LittleToe

I completely agree with ya...

.

...right up to the last sentence.

Most mystics keep themselves to themselves, being law-abiding citizens n all. Further, many high-control religions castigate them!

Edited to add that I refered to your penultimate post, not the one immediately above.

Terry

Most mystics keep themselves to themselves, being law-abiding citizens n all. Further, many high-control religions castigate them!

You are referring to......exactly....WHO?

LittleToe

Ah, now we're getting down to it.

I'm talking about the genuinely mystical proponent of spirituality, regardless of their religion or lack thereof.

Who are YOU refering to?

Forscher

I finally got around to looking this topic over and enjoyed it alot. I really enjoyed Drew's comments. Although I've crossed swords with Leo and Nark in the past over the assumptions and conclusions of the "mainstream" biblical scholars, that doesn't mean that I fall completely within the "inerrant" crowd either.
I agree with many of the comments made concerning 2 Tim. 3:16. Certainly Paul had whatever Hebrew scriptures he accepted as inspired in mind when he made that comment. Though that doesn't rule out NT scripture as being just as valuable for the same puposes. I agree that when reading the NT one doesn't see any justification for a pharisaical structure upon the Christian Church. We've all seen the damage such a structure can inflict and why it should be avoided.
Forscher

Terry

Ah, now we're getting down to it.
I'm talking about the genuinely mystical proponent of spirituality, regardless of their religion or lack thereof.
Who are YOU refering to?

You are substituting a concept of "knowledge about God" divorced from ritual or identity (sect) from the actual practice of said belief.

In other words: your concept is not ostensible.

I am referring to the practical everyday manifestation of how Mysticism works when people begin to "believe" an actual doctrine and associate with other practitioners in an organized way.

(I don't want to leave out the bookselling gurus like Deepak Chopra).

The "WHO" I'm identifying always has somebody "telling" or "selling".

Terry

Though that doesn't rule out NT scripture as being just as valuable for the same puposes.

Because.....?

Infallibility of Scripture

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