Intolerance - a new breed of ex-JW

by LittleToe 260 Replies latest jw friends

  • Narkissos
    Narkissos

    To me, what makes this place great is the interaction of people with a wide range of beliefs and experiences. It sure hurts sometimes but imo it is well worth it. There are thousands of churches, religions and clubs where we can associate with people who think alike if we so wish.

    I have come to the conclusion that every sentence with a "should" is both utterly vain and unavoidable. Better imo let the pendulums swing as they have to. They will actually stop sooner if they are allowed to swing one against another -- not that they should stop swinging.

  • FlyingHighNow
    FlyingHighNow

    I've come to realize that we are all on our own journeys, LT. I believe a lot depends on an ex jw's background, whether they were raised in a church or in the Kingdom Hall. It can matter if one was raised in an agnostic or atheistic home. Jane Fonda was raised to be atheist and Ted Turner is an atheist. Now Jane Fonda is attending seminary in Atlanta, finally having decided there is indeed a god.

    I believe that just as God made us to long for our earthly parents and their love and protection, he also made us to long for a spiritual parent or parents. I also believe that no matter how a person attempts to reach out to God, that he appreciates and recognizes that attempt. I believe his love and grace is not bound by human limitations and prejudices. I have come a long way to get back to the very healthy and balanced views of God I enjoyed as a child and preteen.

    LT, I do not agree with this. My vitriol towards all religion has been of my own making over the past 20 years or so. I have checked out many religions and have decided that ALL of them, especially the Abrahamic religions, are crap. I think that the world would be a better place if we just got rid of them. Especially the fudies. Most all religions are intolerant towards the others. Everybody thinks that they are right and God loves them the best. Their egos are amazing.

    I also have very little use for scripture as far as it being inspired or written by God. Every once in a while I'll glean a nugget of what I think is helpful to me. But only if I read it from a symbolic angle.

    Robyn, sometime if you're in an adventurous mood, try attending one of the more forward thinking Episcopal churches. I was raised in the church and returned this year. We attended the confirmation classes to learn of the church I was raised in. We found that they welcome all, no matter what they believe. The church recognizes that all are on their own unique spiritual journeys. They believe that God welcomes all attempts to worship and love him, provided it doesn't involve evil towards fellow human beings.

    The Episcopal church believes that you can't approach scripture without using reason and science. They recognize human error and prejudices have affected translations and preservation of scripture. They also recognize that scripture applied at the time it was written, but doesn't necessarily fit our times. Example: polygamy.

    One good discovery is that they respect your free will and do not use fear to control your behavior. They don't ban books or movies, etc. They respect that you can come to good decisions and policies on your own.

    The church we attend has a gay woman priest. Andy was raised Catholic which has a similar liturgy to the Anglican/Episcopal one. Ours is actually practiced in a higher way as regards to high mass and low mass. So it's prettier and more reverant. We both went to the church expecting comfort in familiar roots with the liturgy. We expected to find a vague sense of God. We didn't expect to find very real spirituality, sensibility, tolerance and intelligent people that sincerely care about all people. We chose this particular Episcopal Church in Grand Rapids because of this statement on their website:

    We are delighted to welcome newcomers to St. Mark’s Episcopal Church!
    Many of our parishioners came to St. Mark's as young people or adults. Some were already Episcopalians; some were even new to Christianity. From wherever you have come, we welcome you on your spiritual journey.
    Our parish includes young and old; wealthy and those of modest means; black, brown, and white; gay and straight; married and single; and those with children or not. Our parishioners come from the city, the suburbs, and more rural areas of West Michigan.

    We celebrate and embrace the diversity of St. Mark's parish. Everyone is welcome!
  • LittleToe
    LittleToe
    ANYTIME we get LT, Terry and Trevor discussing, arguing or sharing on the same thread.......I'm happy!

    Kind words indeed. I'm happy to be found in company with those two gentlemen, also. While I often get at it with Terry it's often with a grin on my face. While I was out it crossed my mind that folks might think I was singling someone out, and please be assured that I'm not (not evenTerry ).

    All I'm attempting to do is turn the sod, so to speak. It's good to occasionally reflect on whether or not we've become stuck at a point in the process. IMHO bigotry would be the very worst of places to become stuck at, regardless of how "right" we might be.

    We recently had a few JW-apologist-types here, followed up with a rant or two by Rex, and ever since then folks seem a bit riled up and shooting at anything that moves. Having been here a few years I've seen such things come and go, but it's good to reflect on our personal behaviour, if for no other reason than out of common decency.

    Anyhow, apologies to anyone who though this was a personal tirade.

  • mkr32208
    mkr32208

    Wait a minute... I like personal tirades! That's the problem LT your too nice!

  • parakeet
    parakeet

    ***....there are a fair number of folks who may have left an intolerant and generalising religion but forgot to leave those attitudes with it.
    Just my 2p, coz to be frank I'm getting sick of it.***

    I think it's a natural fallout from having had religion and bible stuffed down their throats for most of their lives. I liken it to kids that have been kept on a short tether until they go away to college and then all hell breaks loose for a while till they get it out of their systems.
    Most of the anger shown is toward the WTS, its doctrines and some of its heartless adherents in local KHs, which I'm sure you will agree, are deserving of the most scathing criticism. And for many of us with family still left in the org, we have the ongoing pain of their shunning tactics--it's very difficult to be generous and balanced with daily reminders of intolerance shown towards us.
    LT, I hope you can overlook the language and attitudes of some here and see the hurt that causes those responses. I for one, enjoy your comments and the spirit of kindness that underlies them.

  • LittleToe
    LittleToe

    Parakeet:
    I agree that the WTS (and other fundamentalist groups) deserve our ire. It's also not unnatural for it to spill over in our debates. I occasionally call folks to account for the sake of balance, though. If I don't, then there are precious few who will

    LT, of the "devil's advocate" class

  • parakeet
    parakeet

    True, LT. A cheap shot is a cheap shot, no matter who makes it.

  • ballistic
    ballistic

    The way I see it is, "the ex-jws" are not an organisation as such nor do we claim to be united in thought or even purpose... just a mix of people with some aspects of our past in common. And as such it makes for an interesting place to discuss things. It sure would be boring if when you posted something, you just got 100 replies saying "I agree" from just about everyone. Having said that, there is absolutely no need to attack anyone for their point of view. It is even more justifiable to me to be tolerant and open minded in view of the fact that once before in my life I have seen everything I believed in fall through cracks in front of my eyes, and therefore am always prepared to admit if I am wrong or if I simply don't know.

  • Big Tex
    Big Tex
    I cant help but think of the analogy of pendulum swings when I think about how vitriolic some are towards religion (of any description), the bible (and other scripture), and Christianity (generally, regardless of there being a WIDE range of denominational flavours) in particular.

    Ross, I won't disagree with you. I am a nobody in Texas, with a single digit IQ and possessing poor skills in comparison to you, or others on this board.

    At the same time, hillary_step once told me that leaving the Witnesses is a long, painful, and often ugly, process. I began to appreciate the breadth of that statement the longer I've been online. Realization of betrayal and acceptance of that fact while leaving this sect, and all that that implies is tremendous. Anger is a natural, and sometimes healthy, reaction. Failing to conquer the cause of that anger leads to bitterness.

    As with any venture however, some progress faster than others, and some become mired down along the way. Having said that, I'm not suggesting indulgence. Rude or outrageous behavior should be pointed out, as it would in "real life".

    I am somewhat embarassed to admit that were this the early 1990s, I would most likely have been kicked off this board in a nanosecond as my anger and bitterness was extreme. I lumped God (Jehovah) in with with the cruelty I saw in Jehovah's Witnesses. It took many years for me to even begin to separate the two. I see similarities in some regarding their attitude toward Christianity. It's very easy as Jehovah's Witnesses pretended to be Christian.

    I've always looked at this board as a halfway house, a place to exit and then transition out. That process takes time and is not easy or pleasant to watch.

    Sorry if I'm guilty of being preachy again.

    Chris

  • freedomlover
    freedomlover

    *All I'm attempting to do is turn the sod, so to speak. It's good to occasionally reflect on whether or not we've become stuck at a point in the process. IMHO bigotry would be the very worst of places to become stuck at, regardless of how "right" we might be.*


    thank for this LT.

    I love your posts and your comments. I know you and I have different ideas and views but I eagerly look forward to your thoughts and comments. My views are mine yet I hope I am always open to new ideas, concepts, and beliefs.

    at this point I will be the first to admit that even thinking about reading the bible/gospel leaves me somewhat nauseous. It just triggers too many buttons for me still. LOL! However, I have to say listening to people like you give me courage to one day be able to read the gospels without prejudice and glean the beauty and inspiration from them. Right now, at this point I'm finding comfort in other areas that don't trigger those ex-JW buttons.

    thanks LT, for turning the sod.

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