| what i don't get is, really it hasn't changed coz don't forget matthew-24:22 'in fact, unless those days were cut short no flesh would be saved;but on account of the chosen ones those days will be cut short.' The witnesses say this is about the annointed who are still alive and just as things are getting unbearable in the tribulation then jeh will step in and save their flesh, soooo this means they are still saying that annointed ones would be alive when armagadon came! soooo what i dont get is: how everyone concerntrates on the generation when the society is still tripping itself up by using that other scripture. altho funnily enough i havent heard it referred to for ages!! maybe they're hoping people will just forget about it, or have they changed the meaning and i dont know about it, ps. i think the talk was at the dc but in the july after the november watch tower, i'm sure it came out in the wt first! |
SO, What happened to : "the generation will not pass away" idea ???????
by The_Replacement 59 Replies latest watchtower bible
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Cordelia
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serotonin_wraith
I remember mentioning to my dad (I must have been about 14) I'd seen in a non-JW magazine or book that the JWs had made false predictions about the time the end would come, and he told me that no such claims were made, but that I could find out myself by looking through some old publications. Of course I wasn't going to go through hundreds of old Watchtowers or books to see if it was said or not so I kinda just took his word for it. But this 1914 generation not all dying claim, this one I remember being made. I remember it vividly being told to me by my dad, in one of his failed attempts to try and get me baptized. I still thought they believed that until now, so if that's changed now that time is moving beyond their predictions, it's the first one I can see for what it is, because I lived through it, and no one can say to me the claim wasn't made. I missed the whole 1975 one, but this one I now know for a fact was one great big lie, and it's totally removed all doubts now that they mislead to entice more people to join up. Isn't it funny how 'new light' doesn't actually come into effect until AFTER the time passes. They're never going to say 'the end will be in 2010' and then in 2008 change their mind. They'll say they had new inspiration from God in 2010 about it being a bit later, but not much so hurry up and join.
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Ingenuous
Barry:
I remember reading about the generation after1844 will not pass away I cant give a refference for it but goes to show the witnesses pinched it from the SDAs.
Russell acknowledged that just about all the chronology was taken directly or adapted from Adventist sources.
Zion's Watch Tower, 07/1880, p. 3
The transition from the Jewish age to the Gospel age covered a period of a little more than seventy years, reaching from the birth of Christ to the destruction of Jerusalem. The prominent events of that period were the coming of Christ, and the disposition of the Jewish nation. That period was divided into several smaller ones, by marked events and stages of the gradual change... These facts are interesting to the Bible student as matters of history concerning the Lord's dealings with the Jewish nation, but are intensely interesting when it is remembered that all those facts were arranged as a pattern of things connected with the closing history of the Gospel age. The equality and parallelism of the Jewish and Gospel ages we here take for granted, because they have been so often proved.
The transition period of seventy years mentioned at the beginning of this article, has its parallel in the transition from the Gospel age to the millennium, or between A.D. 1844 and A.D. 1914. The beginning of this transition is marked by the application of the 2300 days or years of `Daniel 8` and `9`, and the end is marked by the end of the Times of the Gentiles....
As the beginning of that change was marked by the coming of Christ from heaven, so the 2300 years above mentioned indicate that Christ was due to leave the most holy place--"heaven itself"--in 1844. Each of these points was marked by a movement of the expectant people in reference to the coming of Christ. As there was a tarrying of thirty years then before the manifestation of His presence, and the real closing work, so in this case His presence and the light on the harvest were not manifested until after thirty years of tarrying.
We speak of His coming or manifestation as Bridegroom and Reaper between the Autumn of 1874 and the Spring of 1878, in the same sense as He was so spoken of during the three years and a half between His baptism and His entry into Jerusalem as King. His coming as Bridegroom was first expected and recognized by the watchers, and His work as Reaper afterward seen. In this case, as in the pattern, His manifestation to the watchers was not a coming from heaven, but a manifestation in his official relationship. In either case there was but one coming from heaven--the most holy--and that coming at the beginning of the tarrying. The tarrying in either case is the period of time after He had come, before entering upon His work.Zion's Watch Tower, 12/15/1913, p. 375
Our Lord declared, "The wise shall understand"; and He told us to "Watch" that we might know; and it is this chronology which convinces us (who can and do receive it by faith) that the Parable of the Ten Virgins is now in process of fulfilment--that its first cry was heard in 1844 and its second cry, "Behold the Bridegroom"--present-- was in 1874. It is this chronology and none other which awakened us to trim our lamps, in harmony with the Lord's promise through the Apostle, "Ye brethren are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief."
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blondie
http://www.geocities.com/jrista/19951.htm
1995 "JOYFUL PRAISERS" DISTRICT CONVENTION
(CONVENTION AND PROGRAM REVIEW: WT 1-15-96 pages 5-9)
9:40 Music 9:50 Song No. 57 and Prayer 10:00 Welcome, You Joyful Praisers of Jehovah! 10:30 We Have Reason to Cry Out for Joy (See WT 2-15-96 pages 8-18) 11:00 Song No. 33 and Announcements 11:10 Why Doers of the Word Are Joyful 11:40 KEYNOTE ADDRESS: Set Apart as Joyful Praisers Worldwide (See WT 7-1-97 pages 16-21) 12:10 Song No. 72 and IntermissionDAY 1 DAY'S THEME: "Praise Jehovah, You People...Be Joyful!"--Psalm 149:1,2
MORNING
AFTERNOON
1:30 Music 1:35 Song No. 3 1:40 Keeping Separate and Without Spot From the World 2:10 Remaining Joyful Under Trials 2:40 Song No. 183 and Announcements 2:50 Youths Who Remember Their Creator (See WT 12-1-96 pages 15-20) 3:10 Am I Prepared to Get Married? 3:30 Parents Who Find Pleasure in Their Children (See WT 12-1-96 pages 10-15) 3:50 Education--Use It to Praise Jehovah (See WT 2-1-96 pages 9-14)(RELEASE: "Jehovah's Witnesses and Education" (brochure)) 4:20 Song No. 148 and Closing Prayer
9:30 Music 9:40 Song No. 107 and Prayer 9:50 Be Encouraged by the Day's Text 10:00 SYMPOSIUM: Answering the Call to Praise Jehovah Animate and Inanimate Creation Involved Young and Old Are Responding Doing So as Full-Time Servants 11:00 Song No. 38 and Announcements 11:10 Serving Loyally With Jehovah's Organization (See WT 8-1-97 pages 8-14) 11:30 Becoming Joyful Praisers Through Dedication and Baptism 12:00 Song No. 152 and Intermission1995 "JOYFUL PRAISERS" DISTRICT CONVENTION
(CONVENTION AND PROGRAM REVIEW: WT 1-15-96 pages 5-9)
DAY 2 DAY'S THEME: "Always Offer to God a Sacrifice of Praise"--Hebrews 13:15
MORNING
AFTERNOON
1:20 Music 1:25 Song No. 106 1:30 Virtue or Vice--Which Do You Pursue? (See WT 7-15-97 pages 8-19) 2:00 Bible Questions and Answers 2:30 Guard Against Snares of the Devil 3:10 Song No. 191 and Announcements 3:20 SYMPOSIUM: Praise Jehovah for Divine Rulership What God's Kingdom Is Doing for Us Now Are You Submitting to Theocratic Rule? 4:10 Why Mankind Needs the Knowledge of God (See WT 1-15-96 pages 10-20)(RELEASE: "Knowledge That Leads to Everlasting Life" (book)) 4:50 Song No. 42 and Closing Prayer1995 "JOYFUL PRAISERS" DISTRICT CONVENTION
(CONVENTION AND PROGRAM REVIEW: WT 1-15-96 pages 5-9)
9:30 Music 9:40 Song No. 181 and Prayer 9:50 Be Encouraged by the Day's Text 10:00 SYMPOSIUM: Joyful Praisers During This System's Conclusion The Serpent's Seed--How Exposed? (See WT 6-1-96 pages 9-14) Flight to Safety Before the Great Tribulation (See WT 6-1-96 pages 14-19) 11:00 Song No. 200 and Announcements 11:10 Let Your Brotherly Love Continue (See WT 8-1-97 pages 14-19) 11:30 DRAMA: Honoring Worthy Ones in Their Older Years 12:00 Song No. 155 and IntermissionDAY 3 DAY'S THEME: "Exult, You People, and Be Joyful Forever"--Isaiah 65:18
MORNING
AFTERNOON
1:25 Music 1:40 Song No. 85 and Prayer 1:50 PUBLIC DISCOURSE: Praise the King of Eternity! (See WT 4-1-96 pages 10-21) 2:35 Song No. 217 and Announcements 2:40 Summary of The Watchtower 3:10 Joyfully Praising Jehovah From Day to Day 3:50 Song No. 45 and Closing Prayer -
hamsterbait
After the 1995 ASS em er er er Lie, I discussed the To'te talk with my then friend.The talk said that when "you see these things , lift up your heads for your deliverance is near" meant that Christians would see the celestial phenomena of the great Tribblation (didn't you just love that Star Trek episode?) and know Christ was delivering Judgement on the nations.
I immediately realized that "this Generation will not pass away until THESE THINGS occur " was now being applied to the Tribble thingie, so Christ's statement "this Generation" was now ambiguous. I got out my "greatest man" book. (No NO - The Jesus one - you know the janitor of Jehoobie's Heaven, in WT speak)
I turned to the Chapter with the sputniks, and it said that Armageddon would come in the lifetime of those who are alive when it comes. "In fact, the end will occur within the lifetime of the people who see the fulfilment of all the things Jesus foretells!"
I made my friend write in the book and sign it with date that I said that the WT was about to ditch the 1914 generation teaching. When the WT study came out, and the Blurb at the front changed, we happened to get together one evening. (1997) He said "Well, I hate to say it but you were right." As for the "BLOODGUILT" fear they hit everybody over the head with, that is an Old Testament concept which was done away with when it was nailed to the cross woth the Lord Jesus. That threat of losing God's Grace because we don't hawk the Botchtower doesn't frighten me any more. When St paul said "woe is me if I don't preach the good news (of Jesus, NOT Jehovah)" He meant that he was miserable and depressed because he was not talking about the one thing in his life that gave him real Joy. Not that God would send an avenging angel to kill him because he was not hawking the scrolls on the door to bore misery.
HB
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hamsterbait
Candidly -
God I know that cannonball feeling. I read the study in bed the night I got the new magazines ( I always did in those days)
The next morning I got up for work and felt nauseaous cleaning my teeth, and all day I felt a sense of impending doom.
That same week I heard via an elder's son, that an elder had been molesting boys in the congo when shepherding. It was all covered up, and to this day the piece of subhiman gristle responsible has never been reported to the authorities. (So much for judicial confidentiality)
It was all downhill from then on. In 1999 I got my first PC, went online, and the rest is history.
HB
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hamsterbait
The Change in the Sheep and Goats had to come, because the talks at the 1993 Assembly about the Generation, made the current teachings on the separation work invalid.
I feel so ashamed that I argued so often to born again Christians ( who INSISTED that what JW - now - say is true) that they were wrong and our (now debunked teaching on this) was right.
HB
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matey
i remember the whole generation of 1914 stuff.. but the sheep and the goats thing.. what exactly was the WT thought before and after "new light" was shed on that subject?
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blondie
It used to be that the WTS taught that since 1918, humans have been in a "judgment period" and that when they die, they go to Gehenna, without a hope of a resurrection.
New light was that this judging does not take place until after the great tribulation starts at which time Jesus comes again with the angels and separates the sheep and the goats, judging them at that time.
(PS. The WTS also taught that since 1919, the League of Nations/later UN had been "standing in a holy place" when Christendom said that the UN was God's Kingdom on earth. They now teach that the UN will stand in a holy place at some future time in some special way.)
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jschwehm
Hi All:
It was the change in this doctrine that was really the last straw for me. I got really angry as this was the teaching that was always used to keep me in line to scare me into compliance while growing up as a dub.
I wrote a letter to the Watchtower Society which was never answered. There is a link to it below:
http://corior.blogspot.com/2006/02/jeffery-m-schwehms-letter-to.html
I shared the letter with my JW parents and they told me that they thought I was making a big deal out of nothing as usual.
My baby brother who was in high school read it and got the point real fast. To this day, he is not a JW (Thank God!)
Jeff S.