Should you believe in the Trinity? (page 6)

daystar

..what handshake?...;)

LOL! This brings up a question I have. What is the LDS stance on Masonic membership for their membership?

Eternal pregnancy I think is devoid of the nasty bits - its all the love and the joy without the consequences of the fall - besides spirits don't have bodies so it can't hurt....

(New Testament | 1 Timothy 2:14 - 15)

14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.
15 Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety.

LDS stance on masons - good question well said - not a clue.

One question we are asked when conducting worthiness interviews is whether we associate with any organisations opposed to the church (oh cr*p - does here count? :) but that is about the only thing that comes close. Whenever I was part of the youth organisation leadership in the church and they asked this, I struggled - little runts :P You had to love them or you'd end up battering them with any spare scriptures they'd abandoned at church.

daystar

LDS stance on masons - good question well said - not a clue.

Ok. I was just curious as I'd not heard or read anything regarding that. I'm not anti-Masonic, as you may or may not have gathered. Does the LDS openly (relatively) acknowledge Smith's Masonic membership? Is there any such conspiracy regarding his Masonic status, such as there is with Russell?

One question we are asked when conducting worthiness interviews is whether we associate with any organisations opposed to the church (oh cr*p - does here count? :)

Well, that wouldn't necessarily preclude one from being a Mason and a member of the LDS. (Does here count? Ah, a joke of course. )

Qcmbr

Joseph Smith's masonic links are openly acknowledged but I doubt you'd see anything in the proselyting material. It is in the LDS institute study manuals http://www.ldsces.org/manual_index.asp

more specific: http://www.ldsces.org/inst_manuals/ChrchHstryInst32502000/Chapters/ChrchHstryInst32502000_24.pdf

1ofhissheep

Yeah, I used to be a Mormon so I remember some of that stuff. But, even if it was all the joy with none of the pain, I would still feel cheated. I mean, for years men said women should be in the kitchen bare foot and pregnant. Who thought of the idea to have it be the same for eternity? Don't tell me God because I see nothing in the OT or NT that says we are supposed to be that way. Especially if you read Revelation 20:1 Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no longer any sea. 2 I saw the Holy City, the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride beautifully dressed for her husband. 3 And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, "Now the dwelling of God is with men, and he will live with them. They will be his people, and God himself will be with them and be their God. 4 He will wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death or mourning or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away."

If you continue on, I still see no place where it says that God makes men Gods and women their eternal incubators. Sorry for the rude term but that's how I see it. Show me where this is quoted in the bible.

Qcmbr

1ofhis.

I feel a little ambushed answering your question since:

1/ I'm not a women and it would seem uber presumptuous to say that childbearing was a positive experince (as opposed to being an eternal incubator) but my wife and I are so chuffed with our first two little baby-ladies that ,depite the pain for my wife, we are enthusiastically looking forward to more. If there was no pain or 9 month gestation period I'd have tons of the squigglers because I love my children and they bring my wife and I so much happiness.
2/ You know this doctrine isn't clear at all in the bible and I'm hamstrung in finding clear scriptures (no one here accepts my source material :( I cannot prove this from the bible but then again the bible is missing a wodge of scriptures that might have clarified it.
3/ I'm not pretending to know how childbearing happens in heaven but IF you believe Jesus was created then you have to suggest their is a birthing / creation process in heaven as Jesus clearly pre-dated his earthly birth.
4/ If this life is more than just a bizarre temporary sideshow then you'd have to hope that all things on earth have their likeness in heaven - if we are made in the physical image of God why oh why does He have procreative features if He doesn't use them??? We know that after resurrection Jesus had a body and was able to eat etc.. Post resurrection why would families cease?? Why does a future heaven have no children in most christians planning and hopes?

Im sticking with my wife and the hope of worlds without end, the continuation of life and the process of creation.

Eternal procreation rocks:)

1ofhissheep

Sorry that you feel ambushed but of course procreation rocks for you, you will be the "head of the houshold" in your heaven.

But if you look at Galations 3 you will see that, once we are baptized in Christ, we are all equal heirs.

26 You are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus, 27 for all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

So, that means that things will be a LOT different when we are with God for eternity.

Qcmbr

Are you saying from that scripture that gender will cease?

When it comes to head of the household I need more scriptures to reclaim my role - my wife's too unruly :) The thing I noticed about 'head of the family' its only important when someone /both people in the relationship want to go in different directions - someone has to drive and someone has to read the map - (my wife does the driving) I think that maybe some JWs push this headship thing into a domination of women which is pretty rubbish - modern day civilisation is working hard to reverese the years of cultural discrimination and the church should never have been guilty of it.

DannyHaszard

Trinity Quandary & Quantum Theory

Shawn10538

Does anybody even need to read the Bible (or the book of Middle eastern mythology being a more acurate title) to know that the idea of the Trinity is ridiculous? Put down your Bibles people! It's myth! Trinity myths appear thousands of years befor Christ. It is an archetype!

Why are you trying so hard to describe the nature or form of God? We are all way too puny to comprehend if there is a God. And if there is one, he has not revealed himself to mankind in an obvious, non- discriminatory way that all humans can have access too. In other words:
1. Either there is no God or
2. God has some reason for letting bickering and debate go on for centuries about whether he is two feet tall or three feet tall or has green eyes or has hazel eyes.

One thing for sure is, as a race, collectively, humans have no actual first hand knowledfg of God or anything about him or her or it or them. Zippo.
Coming up with a mathematically impossible problem to describe him must be, if you want anyone to take you seriously, just a way of saying, we don't know what the hell we are talking about when we talk about God. But, as far as believing in a literal Trinity, you must have yourself committed if you believe int it. Only an incredible amount of self manipulation could make someone feel comfortable with such a ridiculous notion.

When someone actually meets and talks with God, and I mean, in such a way that other people in the room saw him too, give me a call. I'll come with cameras and video. But if you don't have that kind of proof, then you are just speculating and talking story, aren't you?

Santa Claus is real. Prove that he is not!

Shawn

Should you believe in the Trinity?

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