Well it wouldnt surprise me in the least that the Irish would come up with ideas to improve the Society.
I just finished reading "Who Were The Celts?" by Kevin Duffy. A real entertaining book all about the contributions of the Irish and surrounding Celtic people to science, tool making, literature, building, etc. The list is endless and impressive.
So it wouldnt surprise me a bit if this were true, inventors and freedom fighters that they are.
DC in Ireland: Warning about groups of bros who want to modernise the WT
by truthseeker 28 Replies latest jw friends
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anewme
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Axelspeed
The people I see causing the biggest changes are the R&F who hear and then quickly forget what they hear. They don't speak up yet, but their actions show they aren't going to be pushed around so easily.
I agree. The biggest jw changes are already happening, from the bottom-->up. The only changes that will come from the top-->down are those brought on by lawsuits and cash flow problems.
Even with no further change from the top I could argue that in 20 yrs. you might not recognize this religion or the R&F jw.
Axel
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jgnat
I agree, reform has to come from the top-down. And I see no efforts from the top to effect such a change.
Two successful examples of top-down reform:
Other ways for such a heirarchal structure to reform is from social pressures from without, such as:
And bad publicity:
I also do not trust legislative controls, as politicians are notoriously famous for getting it wrong. Case in point, the Salem witch trials, the Branch Davidians, and the recent Russian hostilities.
I cannot see how individual reform-minded elders could connect to effect any change. There would inevitably be a snitch in the crowd and the whole thing would come tumbling down.
An organization that does not take care of it's people will eventually collapse anyhow. People vote with their pocketbooks and their feet.
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james_woods
Don't forget the Ray Franz issue with chronology and the 607 date. He started out hoping for honest reform.
And, the ridiculous situation where a majority of the Governing Body wanted a reform issue validated, but they couldn't make the 2/3 quorum because of a few stubborn old farts...didn't people go to prison and get severely persecuted for that issue?
As to the 1914; yes, if it is ever admitted that this was not the second coming, then all things WT fall down intellectually. However, this organization does not operate on intellectual honesty. It is a control cult and most of the members today probably could not even give you a decent history of what 1874/1914 and so on actually meant over the years.
I think anybody for honest reform gets booted - even if they are a Governing Body member in good standing. Let alone some individual elders...
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stillajwexelder
*** yb88 pp. 126-127 Ireland ***
APOSTASY ONCE AGAIN IN DUBLINDuring 1982 a particularly virulent form of apostasy developed, mainly in the Dublin area. Some brothers began to resent the authority of the congregation and to question the body of teachings that are accepted by Jehovah’s people as truth. They promoted the idea that each Christian should be able to decide for himself on various matters of doctrine. Quietly and surreptitiously they sowed seeds of doubt in the minds of others regarding doctrine. The integrity of members of the Governing Body was questioned. The dissenters who were serving as elders and ministerial servants minimized organizational instructions. From the platform, and at other times secretly, they disseminated their own ideas, undermining the confidence of others in Jehovah’s organization.
YES - AS BLONDIE says, has happened before in Ireland and talked about in C of C by Ray Franz- Martin Merrriman was the name of the bad boy allegedly.
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isthisit
there was an "apostasy" here in the 1980's and it caused some problems, some of them got "god complexes" themselves and others left and did nothing else. we had our convention 2 weeks ago and there was nothing mentioned about this. As for last week i can't say. Most of the main ones involved are either inactive on the campaign front or else moved on.
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stillajwexelder
all about the contributions of the Irish and surrounding Celtic people to science, tool making, literature, building, etc. The list is endless and impressive.
Well you only have to look at the massive contribution to the world from Irish Americans -very impressive indeed -
garybuss
This is really a good tape. It's a first hand account of what REALLY happened in Ireland.
John May and Martin Merriman on the Franz Incident
Former elders from Ireland, discussing their 1983 trip to speak with the Governing Body on the Franz Incident, and how they were treated by the GB members. Great for JWs to listen to! TMM-2
http://www.freeminds.org/sales/menu.htm -
blondie
So you have to buy it first before you can listen to it, right?
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DannyHaszard
Here we have a Watchtower Whistle-blower one of many who is of course disfellowshipped and discredited
Jehovah's Witness Watchtower Whistle blower Danny Haszard in Bangor, Maine. www.dannyhaszard.com/ - 28k - Cached - Similar pages