Yates verdict (page 5)

SixofNine

As for being permanently damaged because they have to live with what they have done - I take the stand that they are already damaged and therefore, the ramifications of what they have done can never truly affect them as they would in a 'normal' person.

Examine your logic. One cannot be damaged by the horror of having killed one's children if one has not killed one's children.

As for being damaged beforehand by having had serious depression or episodes of mental illness, well.....ok. But once they are back to 'normal', then of course they are going to react like a 'normal' person who had a mental illness and the trauma associated with it.

I'm not sure what you want from the mentally ill? I wish they'd just be 'normal' too. It would solve so many problems in this world.

Take a sociopath.

Why?

We know nothing about what her mental illness or their lifestyle did to the kids, we don't know how affectionate she was or was not, we don't know much about her mothering at all.

I suppose not, but the jury does.

One child murdered by a sick pedophile is no less or important than the 5 children that she murdered and in both cases, mental illness prevails.

I guess I still don't see your point. If you think I take my positions because of the relative value of different kids, you are projecting some sick shit on me. I don't accept it. If you are going to persist in comparing a mom suffering from psychotic delusions to a sexual predator who kills to cover his crimes, I think you are an unfeeling, cold, and frankly, not very logical...... person.

ronin1

Thank you Quandry.

I suffered post-partum depression when I had my daughter. When she was about 3 months olds I was so depressed, sick (I had a very bad pregnancy that had me sick for two years after giving birth by C-Section), and physically tired that I went to an upstairs window with her in tow. I called my mother who was downstairs and she quickly ran up-stairs and took her away from me. I was not insane but so depressed and sick -and yet I had help from my family members and only one child.

How much more when this women clearly had mental problems and no help from her husband. People need to understand the entire story.

Right now my daughter is suffering with her two boys ( 18 months old and 3 1/2 years old) because they are toddlers, very active, she works full time, and her boyfriend sometimes has to work all kinds of hours just to help make financial ends meet. (P.S.- the three year old is exhibiting boarder line signs of autism and ADD). She is depressed a lot and has not had a vacation in years.I try to talk with her every night on the phone to be of comfort, to sympathize, and to give suggestions to help her. My family is having a family reunion next week in NC and she definitely does not have the monies for the airline fares for herself and the boys ( her boyfriend is working, cannot make the trip) and the hotel costs. I am paying for her entire trip and for myself and my husbands. Why? Because I want her to get relaxation and a vacation. When a person is stressed like that with young children, anything can happen- no matter if they love them. You have to recognize the signs.

This women's husband had to know and see the mental illness signs, etc. and ignored them. He is just as guilty.

Ronin1

Satanus

Maybe, instead of focussing on punishment/retribution, we should try to see what can be salvaged from this point on. How many people are normal, totally free of screw ups, anyway? I have seen a lot of screwed up people, and the more i get to know people, the more i find out that they are all (almost all) screwed up somehow.

S

sammielee24

If you are going to persist in comparing a mom suffering from psychotic delusions to a sexual predator who kills to cover his crimes, I think you are an unfeeling, cold, and frankly, not very logical...... person

It's a shame when one cannot allow some simple debate with simple logic without being judged and labelled - but thank you for your opinion. I won't respond to your personal attack of my character since you don't know me and never will so it's of no importance to the topic but just for the record - I only used those comparisons to try and drive home the point of mental illness that affects both gender and how we think and treat those differently. It's a shame if I didn't word it in a way that you understood - my apologies for not being very clear and concise and perhaps not being as eloquent or as brilliant as you are. sammieswife.

Big Tex

but do you not think it hurts society to hear about kids being killed?

I believe it is a natural reaction when one encounters a true horror of a parent murdering 5 children to want, on a deep emotional level, some sense of balance. By that I mean what has occurred is an unnatural act, and that feeling is at a primal level. I believe it is at this deep nearly sub-conscious level that the average person feels out of balance and so naturally seeks to find way to correct the imbalance via punishment.

The idea that the murderer was declared "not guilty" doesn't satisfy that need to balance the horror. The idea of a nebulous psychiatric treatment, especially with the possibility the murderer will walk free one day only exacerbates the feeling of imbalance. Which only in turn increases the sense of frustration.

Everyone who reads this story wants to find a way to save those children. Somehow, someway. But, sadly, it can't happen.

Now that I'm a parent, I can't read too much about this story. Someone sent me an article that began to describe how the oldest boy's fists were still clenched when his body was found, indicating his struggle to survive. That alone was more than I could handle.

I lack the expertise to say whether this woman was sane or not. Personally I think anyone who harms their own child suffers from insanity as no sane parent would ever conceive of doing such a monstrous thing. But still, I look at my own children, and my bleeding heart liberal heart hurts for those poor children being murdered by someone they trusted so. It is this part of me that truly hopes this woman regains her mind, and understands the horror she has committed. I truly hope that she faces what she has done and accepts responsibility.

To my poor mind, living with the knowledge of brutally murdering your 5 children is a helluva punishment. I have to think that in the middle of the night, when no one is around, no one is watching, no act (real or imagined) is being played, that this woman has to got hear the voices of her childre, she has got to see their faces as they died.

That image, those sounds, has got to be worse than spending a lifetime prison.

But what do I know?

Gregor

Maybe, instead of focussing on punishment/retribution, we should try to see what can be salvaged from this point on. How many people are normal, totally free of screw ups, anyway? I have seen a lot of screwed up people, and the more i get to know people, the more i find out that they are all (almost all) screwed up somehow.

Satanus, I urge you to seek help. You are one confused dude.

Big Tex

Satanus is one of the more insightful, perceptive and intelligent people I've met in the 4+ years I've been on this board.

blondie

Can't save those children, but are there children we could help?

What programs are in your area that help abused children or children that are without resources of some kind, emotional, physical, etc.?

Blondie

nowisee

blondie, you keep goin' girl. i hope you will continue to wake people up. tex - i saw the news tonite and they said that the healthier she gets the more pain she feels over what she has done.

SixofNine

"I truly hope that she faces what she has done and accepts responsibility."

I know you're not a cruel guy Chris, but that seems cruel. It's like saying "I hope this person who has suffered from one of the most horrendous things that can happen to a person, will wake up and have to suffer twice as much". Of course that is likely exactly what is happening to her, but to wish it on her?

Besides, if she was responsible, then she should be in prison or executed.

I heard a good analogy about this today: Think of the movie A Beautiful Mind, and you'll get a sense for how things seemed to Andrea Yates. Think of how we, as the audience, saw a "reality" all the way thru the movie that wasn't real at all, it was only revealed to us as a product of insanity towards the end; but it was exactly what John Nash saw.

Yates verdict

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