Great news. The WTS did not commit spiritual prostitution with UN.

by thirdwitness 597 Replies latest watchtower scandals

  • thirdwitness
    thirdwitness

    Knowing about the full range of facilities offered by the DPI helps explain Bethel's other claim in it's letters:

    “We had been using the library for many-years prior to 1991, but in that year it became necessary to register as an NGO to have continued access.”

    “In any case, we had been using the library facilities at the UN for many years prior to 1991. In that year, our researcher was advised by UN personnel that it would be necessary to register as an NGO to have continued access to the various libraries we were using.”

    The Watchtower Society's researcher was apparently told he could no longer access certain areas or facilities without an NGO pass. Why? Perhaps the facilities were new, and reserved only for DPI NGOs. Perhaps existing facilities were now being reserved only for the use of DPI NGO representatives. Perhaps the brother wished to access certain documents which were off-limit to the general public. Or perhaps certain exhibitions or events were taking place that were DPI NGO-invitation only. These possibilities are hinted at in one of Bethel's letters, where it states that a DPI NGO pass was necessary to access “specific areas”, presumably areas which were previously accessible. Whatever happened, the Watchtower Society researcher was told they needed an NGO pass to continue with the same level of access they previously enjoyed.

    There is, of course, one other possibility: that the employee who advised of the need for an NGO pass was simply mistaken. How many of us can say we have not experienced some kind of incompetence or received some wrong advice from a government employee? If we are honest, we know that government agencies are often notorious for giving contradictory advice. In the UK's large welfare state, it is a running joke that you can call a government helpline and receive a different answer to the same question if you call twice.

    The Global Policy Forum's report, which we quoted earlier, had this to say about the competence of both the DPI and ECOSOC NGO staff:

    “The DPI office gets good marks for timely processing of pass requests and for overall courtesy and helpfulness. But its management of documents in the NGO Resource Center tends to be chaotic. Serious problems exist in both offices.”
    “Many NGOs complain that some of the notoriously bureaucratic and unresponsive behavior of the ECOSOC office in the past still persists. The office employs cumbersome and time-consuming procedures for issuing passes, it too often it loses accreditation letters, and its staff can be discourteous.”
    “NGOs also find the application procedures for new accreditation in both offices tend to be bureaucratic and paper-bound. Staff have lost or mislaid accreditation folders and have been inflexible in applying rules for evaluation.”

    We do not quote the above to try and “lay the blame” on the UN for the situation, but just to show that it is quite reasonable to consider whether a UN employee could have given incorrect advice to a visitor. Also, think how the above report is from 1999. Can you imagine how much more confusing the NGO situation must have been in the early 1990's — when the NGO world was still finding its feet? If they can lose papers and forms, then it is neither surprising nor unreasonable to wonder whether the brother was simply given wrong advice from the UN employee.

    For whatever reason, the Watchtower Society researcher was informed that to continue his currently level of access, he needed to be a representative of a DPI NGO. Perhaps he tried to access “specific areas” which were now off-limits, or perhaps he was misinformed. We do not know. However, this part of Bethel's story is both plausible and believable. We can see that many facilities were only available to NGOs and therefore Bethel's explanation is entirely reasonable. Thus we have no basis to claim Bethel is lying whatsoever.

  • thirdwitness
    thirdwitness

    Steve said: Another thing to remember, their association with the UN/DPI was altered in the 1997 registry. In that registry they were now listed among NGO's of HUMAN RIGHTS.

    Each year, the DPI required its NGOs to sign the Accreditation Form to state who its representatives would be — to allow them to gain access to the DPI's extensive facilities at the United Nations in New York.

    Here we have a copy of the Accreditation Form as it appeared prior to 2002 — before the renewal process began and before the form was changed to become a renewal application. See the form for yourself at this location. As you can see, this earlier version of the form says nothing about supporting the United Nations. The form is merely there to allow representatives of the NGO to access the DPI's facilities. The form itself clearly states:

    “This form should be used to confirm your currently accredited representative and/or to authorize newly appointed representatives.”

    The form the Society signed each year was obviously not a renewal application. To deny this and continue to insist that they did renew their status each year, would be senseless. Interestingly, also appearing on this earlier form is the following question:

    “Please indicate your organization's main area(s) of interest (e.g. development, disarmament, religion, environment, human rights, conflict resolution, women, etc.)”

    Some have found lists of UN NGOs where the Watchtower Society is listed, complete with items such as “human rights”, and “women” listed as the Society's areas of interest. They have noticed how these areas of interest have changed in the records from year-to-year. Therefore, they have argued that it “proves” the Society must have annually renewed their NGO membership because the “areas of interest” kept changing. Yet, as we can clearly see from the form, that question did not appear on a yearly renewal form at all — but on the form to get the representatives their access passes.

    It is clear, then, that the Watchtower Society did not reapply for it's NGO status each year, and that the Accreditation Form (prior to 2001/2002) which the Society did sign annually, was simply to state who it's representatives would be along with their areas of interest for accessing the DPI's facilities.

    It is also clear that the Watchtower Society was being truthful when it said “At the time of the initial application no signature was required on the form”, and that the forms signed by the Society really did not conflict with Jehovah's Witnesses beliefs. We can see the evidence for ourselves.

  • jayhawk1
    jayhawk1

    Thirdwitness, you still can't answer why the Watchtower Corp would want to go into the Den of Satan in the first place. What part of "stay out of her" did the Watchtower Corp not understand?

  • fullofdoubtnow
    fullofdoubtnow
    Knowing about the full range of facilities offered by the DPI helps explain Bethel's other claim in it's letters:
    “We had been using the library for many-years prior to 1991, but in that year it became necessary to register as an NGO to have continued access.”
    “In any case, we had been using the library facilities at the UN for many years prior to 1991. In that year, our researcher was advised by UN personnel that it would be necessary to register as an NGO to have continued access to the various libraries we were using.”



    The key words there are "Bethel's other claim in it's letters"

    All you do thirdwitness is spout the wts line over and over again.

    Well, some of us, knowing that the wts are more than willing to lie if it suits their purposes, don't believe bethel's letters.

    The fact remains that the wts joined an organisation which it has always comdemned, and no amount of bs on your website is going to change that.

  • stevenyc
    stevenyc

    I personally have no problem with the watchtower society associating with the UN as an NGO listed under 'Human Rights'. When you research how they have worked along side other human rights NGOs in attempt to stop the brutality inflicted by counties across Europe, Africa, and Asia, for people expressing their religious beliefs, it is commendable. Some may see this as only an opportunity to extend their publishing arena, but whatever, if it helps stop the terrible nonsense dished out then it is a good thing. It's not just Jehovah's witnesses that get this brutal treatment. Maybe the Watchtower only focus on their needs, maybe not, I doubt we'll know until one of the witnesses involved DA's himself.
    The biggest shame is that the old doctrines forced the Watchtower to lose the secular credibility it attained with its association with the UN.

    Just my 2cents.

    steve

  • thirdwitness
    thirdwitness

    As for the application having a place for email address or web site, please take note that the application is the one posted by apostates claiming that it is a 1991/92 application. If it is a later application than the apostates claim, then you have once again been misled by deceitful apostates. And if it is a later application then more than likely the earlier 1991 application did not even require as much information as the later one. We can say this because the evidence shows that the DPI was changing toward NGOs and their policies toward them and their requirements were becoming more and more strict than in the previous years. Take for example the rigorous review process not instituted until 2001/2002 after the WTS had withdrawn.

  • kerj2leev
    kerj2leev

    “Many NGOs complain that some of the notoriously bureaucratic and unresponsive behavior of the ECOSOC office in the past still persists. The office employs cumbersome and time-consuming procedures for issuing passes, it too often it loses accreditation letters, and its staff can be discourteous.”

    This is typical!! Please supply the list of the "Many NGO's" that complained. You just don't get it and never will!!!!

  • thirdwitness
    thirdwitness

    The fact remains that the wts joined an organisation which it has always comdemned,

    No not a fact at all. A misleading statement often made by apostates but an untrue one. The WTS did not 'join' the UN. In fact, it is clearly stated by the DPI: "association of NGOs with the DPI does not constitute their incorporation into the United Nations system, nor does it entitle associated organizations or their staff to any kind of privileges, immunities or special status."

    But I do like the fact that you admit that the WTS has always condemed the UN. At least you here admit that the WTS in the Awake magazines did not secretly promote the UN as the hope for mankind.

  • stevenyc
    stevenyc

    thirdwitnoid,

    who said 'reapply'?

    The requirement for NGO's associated with the UN was to submit material demonstrating continued dissemination of information promoting the works of the UN. Which they did.

    steve

  • fullofdoubtnow
    fullofdoubtnow
    As for the application having a place for email address or web site, please take note that the application is the one posted by apostates claiming that it is a 1991/92 application. If it is a later application than the apostates claim, then you have once again been misled by deceitful apostates

    Usual wts crap thirdwitness, blame it all on apostates.

    We aren't misled by apostates, and we aren't fooled by your bs either.

    Change the record, thirdwitness. We've heard this one so often it's beginning to grate.

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