A bit reluctant

by saki2fifty 148 Replies latest jw friends

AuldSoul

I believe I read one of your posts the other night, and you mentioned only 2 things are required... Faith and Love

I think that was lovelylil. It wasn't my post. The following are required for becoming an unbaptized publisher:
(1) Ceasing all worldly habits that would detract from the message or appear as hypocrisy.
(2) Regularly attending all Christian Meetings for as long as the local congregation elders deem necessary.
The following are required BEFORE baptism (counting the above two as prerequisites for the second step):
(1) An extensive period of Bible Study, lasting at least many weeks.
(2) Qualifying as an unbaptized publisher (see #1 and #2 above) and monthly reporting a regular share in the ministry for as long as the local elders deem necessary.
(3) Repentance and Conversion (as far as I know, the only Scriptural requirement).
(4) Prayer of dedication.
(5) Extensive demonstration of Bible knowledge to congregation elders.
In Chapter 18 of the book "What Does the Bible Really Teach?" paragraph four makes this comment: " To qualify for baptism, however, you must take definite steps."
Therefore, these steps are taught to new ones as pre-baptismal requirements. Since these are listed in a book entitled "What Does the Bible Really Teach?" I am simply asking where the Scriptures are to support a doctrine that these are requirements for Christian baptism.
If the doctrine is not supported Scripturally, what is its origin? (1 John 4:1)
Does not the society not have any leg room to ensure this?
Scripturally? No. Galatians 1:6-9 is pretty specific when it comes to adding to the good news Christ gave and that the apostles taught. Organizationally, they have repeatedly demonstrated they have unlimited leg room to decide whatever they want, whenever they want. But their exercise of authority isn't Scriptural.
Think about this: If a church of Christendom teaches a doctrine as truth, with the best of intentions, but the doctrine is not based on the Bible, is it a Scriptural doctrine? If it is not in harmony with what the Scriptures say, is it part of the pattern of heathful words? If not, where does it come from?
Now, fairmindedly apply the exact same standard to Jehovah's Witnesses.
Respectfully,
AuldSoul
love2Bworldly

Hummingbird92725--
Just one comment, I am very curious about something. You feel very strongly about the love of the brotherhood in Jehovah's organization. Stop going to meetings for a few months and see if anyone notices or bothers to call you; more than likely, they will 'mark' you as bad association instead of trying to help you back to the meetings.
Warlock

Saki,
I think you really need to read the Bible, not for the similarities, but for the discrepencies between it, and some of the WTS teachings.
"No one knows the day or the hour". Why all the dates for Armageddon then?
Life is a FREE GIFT from God and it CANNOT be earned. Why is it taught from the platform that we EARN our salvation?
The Bible teaches there is one mediator between God and MAN, not just between God and the 144,000. Otherwise "the great crowd" are 100% lost and are not responsible to do anything. They cannot approach God.
Where does the Bible say it is written for the "annointed" ONLY?
I'm not trying to put you on the spot, I'm trying to get you to think.
Hummingbird,
You are not talking to a bunch of ignorant people here. We've been where you are. You are just hiding the real truth from yourself, even though I know you can see it. You just won't accept it.
Warlock
Lady Liberty

By doing what we wish, by doing whatever else that might be against JW's principles really sets you free, really makes you happy, which is the main theme here on this board, then can we really say that we are doing what God wants? Or maybe doing what God wants isn't the key. Maybe its just us being happy within ourselves...
Then we grow old, die, and thats it. What kind of hope is that?
Dear Saki,
I cannot speak for anyone else, but I certainly do not feel just because I am no longer a Witness I answer to no one. I do still answer to Jehovah and Christ Jesus. That is the very reason why I have decided to make my stand for truth. Remember, "truth" is a 100% true. Also, I certainly am not left without a hope. The Bible and the things promised in it are still there. Just because I am not going to meetings does not mean I feel this life is all there is. Why would I believe that now?? Many on here have lost all hope. They feel betrayed and have been let down, but that doesn't mean they will always feel that way. It is my sincere desire they return to Jehovah. But just as many still do have a hope. We do not all agree with each other on different issues. That is up to our relationship with Jehovah and Jesus. However, most who are on here have been Witnesses, and the issue most of us have is, was what we were being taught the truth? Anyway, I hope you can see there are alot of ones here that care about you, regardless of what you decide to do.
Sincerely,
Lady Liberty
Lady Liberty

P.S. I wanted to mention also that just because I am no longer not a Witness have I thrown all morals out the door. My standards for myself as well as my daughter have not changed.
Sincerely,
Lady Liberty
AlanF

Saki, I'll add my two cents.
If you don't lean on your own understanding, then upon whose do you lean?
If you claim to lean on Jehovah's understanding, then how do you know what Jehovah is supposed to be saying in the Bible is right, except by leaning on your own understanding that what the Bible says is right? On the other hand, if you lean on the understanding of men who claim to speak for God, such as the Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses, then aren't you leaning on their understanding? You already know quite well that these men are not inspired and have often gotten extremely important matters wrong, even to the point of causing many unnecessary deaths and stumbling people away from God.
In the end, unless you give your thinking ability over completely to someone else, you have no choice but to rely on your own understanding of just about everything you come across in life.
In case you're wondering, I quit the JWs some 25 years ago because I could no longer tolerate the Society's overridiing scholastic dishonesty. I can say with certainty that, unless you put all your doubts to bed, they'll haunt you forever.
I can also say that unless you can honestly deal with the many issues of the Society's dishonesty raised in the following link, you won't honestly be able to claim that you stick with the JWs due to real knowledge, but only because it makes you feel good:
http://corior.blogspot.com/ "Research on the Watchtower"
AlanF
hummingbird92575

Hi Worldly,
I must belong to wakko congregation, because they ACTUALLY care about the other members...Go figure? There is good and bad in every congregation, it's true...There is good and bad throughout the world...We are only imperfect humans. But when I miss meetings due to my kids being sick or whatever, I get several calls either that evening or the day before.
The way it is SUPPOSED to work is that when members of a congregation seemingly fall away from meetings, elders are supposed to go to their homes to see if there is anything that can be done to reiterate how vitally important meetings are and also to see if there is anything the congregation can do to help...if there is an illness in the family, financial crunch, whatever...If that didn't happen when you fell away, I am very saddened by this. All I can offer is that the members of a congregation, whether overseer, elder, babtized, or otherwise, are only human.
Aside from that, I feel it should be the individual't responsibility, and not the congregation's, for his or her own spirituality. Even if I feel like members of a congregation don't care about me, I know that Jehovah and His son do...That's all that matters to me. And when I look into my kids' eyes, I know I am doing the right thing. These are the last days, and we will all face tribulation...even within the congregations. Don't let that discourage you!
Know that you are blessed for your efforts. HE knows what you are going through and he sees your intentions. That is what I think about. Not whether I am missed or not at the meetings.
hummingbird92575

Hummingbird,
You are not talking to a bunch of ignorant people here. We've been where you are. You are just hiding the real truth from yourself, even though I know you can see it. You just won't accept it.
Warlock
Warlock,
If I came across in a condescending way, I didn't mean to. It is hard to truly convey your intentions online sometimes.
I am a little on the defensive though because I came here seeking friends in the truth and I landed right in the middle of a site that caters those who no longer believe in it. That was disheartening.
I don't think that any of you all are ignorant, nor would I say I thought you were even if I DID think you were. We are all human beings and, as such, deserve basic human rights. I would respect you as much as you respect me.
Having said that, I don't think that just because I haven't disassociated myself from JW's that I am hiding anything from myself. In fact, I have never felt so empowered and so in control of my own destiny in my whole life! Not to mention the lives of my kids. I don't see anything that I need to accept. The only reason I am responding to this board is out of respect for your opinions. But you know what they say about opinions...
Just as I have mine. I just happen to feel that mine is more than my own...It is Jehovah's, and no one's opinion is more important than His. NO ONE'S...And I am passionate about that. Just because I belong to an organization you seemingly loathe doesn't make me wrong. I know in my HEART that I am doing the right thing. I don't have to conform to your views to try to fit in or be like you or whatever. Popularity means nothing to me.
I love Jehovah and I will continue to do His will until I die. If some of the WTS are passing on incorrect information, He will deal with them. I will do my best to follow the scriptures and attend meetings and get babtized, just as the bible tells us to. That is my responsibility as a true Christian, and no amount of supposed "information" from this board will convince me otherwise. My spirituality is MY responsibility. Not yours. What you fail to do is entirely up to you. Especially when it is willful rebellion against Jehovah's commands. If you know better, you should do better.
ringo5

As for you and I as new members of this site, I say...Let's get out while we still can. I certainly intend to after this post.

*waves to hummingbird*

5 posts and counting, glad you're still here. Did you happen to read the letter from the (no doubt) sincere Mormon?

How would you reason with him while in the ministry, if he said he could not consider leaving the Mormon church no matter what you showed him, as he would consider that apostacy?
hummingbird92575

"DO NOT LEAN UPON YOUR OWN UNDERSTANDING. This is an ORDER."
If the chilling words of this Watchtower apologist dont shake you out of this mind control, I fear nothing will. Think of the implications of the "advice" this dimwit is giving you. She is telling you: NOT TO USE YOUR MIND. NOT TO THINK, NOT TO REASON, TO SHUT OFF YOUR BRAIN.
Is this how a psychologically mature and healthy human being should function? As an automaton controlled by a multi-million dollar publishing corporation in brooklyn? Would you willingly choose ignorance? Stop. Think for a moment about the implications of her words. Is this the kind of human being you wish to be?
Your brain has been conditioned to reject logical arguments, and to ignore the red flags raised by your intellect. You are in the throes of cognitive dissonance. Read the information on www.freeminds.org These are not the words of apostates, these are the words of your very own watchtower corporation, demonstrating their history of lies, deceit and the ruination of human lives.
Humming-twit: enjoy your baptism and mental servitude. Bow down before the one you serve. You're going to get what you deserve.
Kid-A,
I don't know what you are trying to pull, but it isn't going to work. Trying to twist and contort and insult people who are simply trying to do a greater good...for a Person greater than yourself (Namely, Jehovah)...is a travesty. I am a psychologically mature and healthy human being and I can say that there has been nothing in my life or in the world that has ever made more sense than Jehovah and His Divine Will.
There is nothing wrong with being submissive to God...our creator. I am happy to serve the "Happy God"...the God who IS LOVE...And I will bow down to him forever. What sort of answer were you expecting me to reply?
All the names in the world aren't going to change the way I feel. And since I am in a logical field, which I do not feel comfortable divulging to you, I don't agree at all with your accusation that my brain has been conditioned to reject logical arguments.
On the contrary, I have always been encouraged to ask questions. But you have to remember that it isn't that you're asking questions, but HOW you're asking them. Much like a teenager rebels against a parent, this is what your tone is doing. If a teen asks, "Mom, have you seen my favorite sweater?" that is permissable...the tone and language is respectful. But if that same teen accuses, "Mom! What did you do with my sweater?!?" There is a HUGE difference! And that is true in every situation.
And when I posted that scripture, I had no idea you would twist it so far out of context that you would have the audacity to use it against my own character. I have not used any of the peoples' own words who have posted on this thread against them. That shows just how little respect you have for others.
The scripture said, "Do not lean upon your own understanding." That means that we are not to draw conclusions about our own opinions on some situation. It could be anything from what movies to rent (as Saki pointed out) to why women wear dresses in service to why we shouldn't celebrate holidays to the blood issue. From the small to the huge in context, we should look to Jehovah for guidance. And he appointed the Faithful and Descreet Slave to convey His Righteous messages to us. Why is that so hard to accept? Is it easier (or more thrilling) to say that there is a conspiracy afoot and that we are all slaves to it? Apparently, you think so.
But is it REALLY what you think that is the IMPORTANT issue? Or is it the will of your Creator that is important? Is it easier to say to me that you respect my feelings and appreciate that I have shared them, or is it easier to insult my integrity and call me names? I guess you have made that decision already. Although I have not disrespected you, and have only said how I feel, you, adversely, have tried to humilate me. It won't work, and your form of persecution has only further convinced me that I am doing the right thing.
So, thank you very much.
Sincerely,
C.

A bit reluctant

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