Confrontation - is it for Christians?

by jgnat 49 Replies latest watchtower bible

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  agapa37

  Ok first I would like to address the proof you sited from example as to how the WT does not promote biblical solutions as to how to handles differences. First off, as I said in my first response the Bible based WT that JWS are instructed from DO give the proper councel to handle differences but it is the PEOPLE who do not apply them at times. The example you Gave with your husband and others is a prime one. In the end of it NOONE applied bible princibles! Your husband should not have switched Congregations and the women should not have left and the Elders should not have done what they done. Everything they did was AGAINST what the Bible based WT instructs JWS to do.

  You asked for examples Of Bible based WT showing how to handle personal differences? Here are just a few because there are to many to post.

  Consider, for example, Jesus’ advice on settling personal differences. He said: "If, then, you are bringing your gift to the altar and you there remember that your brother has something against you, leave your gift there in front of the altar, and go away; first make your peace with your brother, and then, when you have come back, offer up your gift." (Matthew 5:23, 24) Taking the initiative in making peace with others takes first priority

  HARMONY between spiritual brothers and sisters is much more precious than mere ornaments. The psalmist appropriately sang: "Look! How good and how pleasant it is for brothers to dwell together in unity!" (Psalm 133:1) Settling a difference with a fellow Christian can sometimes be a delicate matter. Moreover, some do not go about this in the right way. Often the "restoration" is unnecessarily painful or is not very sound, leaving unsightly telltale marks. Some Christians unnecessarily seek to involve appointed elders in matters that they could handle themselves. This may be so because they are not sure what to do. "Many of our brothers don’t know how to apply Bible counsel to settle their differences," commented one brother experienced in giving Bible counsel. "Very often," he continued, "they do not follow Jesus’ way of doing things." So, what did Jesus actually say about how a Christian should settle differences with his brother? Why is it vital to become well acquainted with this counsel and to learn how to apply it? "If, then, you are bringing your gift to the altar and you there remember that your brother has something against you, leave your gift there in front of the altar, and go away; first make your peace with your brother, and then, when you have come back, offer up your gift."—Matthew 5:23, 24.

  What to Do When You Offend Others

  SOMETHING is wrong. You just know it. Your Christian brother is giving you the cold shoulder. He has not said what is bothering him, but he barely says hello—and then only if you first greet him! Should you approach him to find out what is wrong?

  ‘That’s his problem,’ you may think. ‘If he has something against me, he should come and talk to me about it.’ Indeed, the Bible encourages a person who is offended to take the initiative to make peace with his brother. (Compare Matthew 18:15-17.) But what about the offender? What responsibility, if any, rests on his shoulders? In his Sermon on the Mount, Jesus said: "If, then, you are bringing your gift to the altar and you there remember that your brother has something against you, leave your gift there in front of the altar, and go away; first make your peace with your brother, and then, when you have come back, offer up your gift." (Matthew 5:23, 24) Notice that Jesus’ words here are aimed at the offender. What responsibility does he have to settle the matter? To answer that, let us consider what Jesus’ words meant to his first-century Jewish listeners.

  I could go on and on but if you find anything wrong with this then your just LOOKING for something to pick on. The advise in those exerpts of Bible based WT articles is proof enough to show that JWS are instructed by the bible to handle difference. Can it be any clearer?
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  IronClaw

  Good post Jgnat.

  I for one don't mind confrontation, as a matter of fact I have instigated it on several occasions. I guess you can call me a hard core "apostate" for a lack of words. When the PO in my congregation told me that it was OK to lie as long as it wasn't malicious, I lost it. He then lied to me when he said that he and the CO would come over my house and look at the info I had on the Mexico/Malawi scandal. They never showed. After many months of not going to meetings, 2 elders cornered me at a gas station in town while I was pumping gas. That was a HUGE mistake on their part. In front of other patrons I let them have a piece of my mind. The PO still had no answer to my question as to why he and the CO never showed up. All they were concerned with was the fact that I was visiting so called Apostate websites. I have never in my life backed down to anybody. NEVER. and never will. I wish all disputes could be handled in public. Probably never will though. OH well, I'm out now and feel better than ever.

  The Claw
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  AlanF

  The problem with your reasoning, agapa37, is that you don't seem to acknowledge that in practice JWs have two sets of rules, one written and the other unwritten. The experience of many on this board, including me, is that the unwritten rules are how things really work.

  The written rule is that one with a serious complaint go before the elders and lay it out. If they agree there's a problem, then they follow the rules. If they don't agree, they won't follow the written rules but will go by the unwritten ones. Such unwritten rules include, "Thou shalt obey the elders in everything." So when the elders decide to ignore someone's complaint, if the person violates their command to "Drop it!" he or she will have violated the unwritten rule and then be in deep doo doo with those elders. And experience shows that if the person circumvents those elders by talking to someone higher up in the food chain, such as a Circuit Overseer or, God forbid! calls the Society, that person will immediately be viewed as "not a team player" and will be severely censured.

  This business of two sets of rules is endemic to JW culture. New Bethelites are given an instruction manual upon first arriving, but they soon learn that the manual is there largely for show, because in practice many of the rules are not followed by the oldtimers. If the guy has the effrontery to quote the rule book at an oldtimer who wants him to put aside the rules, he will quickly be given his walking papers. No appeal to the top is permitted, because they all play by the unwritten rules and don't want some stupidly righteous newbie coming in and spoiling their party.

  AlanF
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  jgnat

  Your husband should not have switched Congregations and the women should not have left and the Elders should not have done what they done. Everything they did was AGAINST what the Bible based WT instructs JWS to do.

  Can you imagine ANY offence or injustice where it would be acceptable to leave the witnesses or to switch congregations? Who is more accountable - the congregation member who is required to accept direction from the elders, or the elders who give bad advice?

  Thank you for your examples, I appreciate it. Do mind giving the citations so I can reference them myself?

  Taking the initiative in making peace with others takes first priority

  Might I suggest that the WTS considers peace and protection of the society to be more important than reconcilation?

  Some Christians unnecessarily seek to involve appointed elders in matters that they could handle themselves. This may be so because they are not sure what to do. "Many of our brothers don’t know how to apply Bible counsel to settle their differences," commented one brother experienced in giving Bible counsel.

  Might I suggest it is the very method of Watchtower teaching that causes this ignorance? All study is through the Watchtower, and rote answers are required. There is very little in-depth personal study of the bible in these meetings. Also, as AlanF has said, one often does not know the "unwritten rule". My husband has been caught on a couple of occassions, making the wrong "concience decision" and having to be "corrected" by the brothers.
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  Flash

  jgnat

  Your insight on the matter is absolutely correct. It is also a clear comparison between Christ's way and the Modern Scribe's and Pharisee's way.

  agapa37

  There is theory and there is practice. The WTS 'Talks the Talk' but it doesn't 'Walk the Walk' ...and that's the problem.
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  agapa37

  There is theory and there is practice. The WTS 'Talks the Talk' but it doesn't 'Walk the Walk' ...and that's the problem.

  Flash the discussion at hand was that the WT DOESNT print information on how to handle disputes, jgnat made it. Whether or not they walk the walk was not in question here. As seen by just a few exerpts from articles we see that the accusation was false.
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  Flash

  agapa37

  Flash the discussion at hand was that the WT DOESNT print information on how to handle disputes...

  No, the discussion at hand is the content of her Thread, how True Christians ought to be handling their differances vs the standards imposed on them by men who are "lording it over" them.

  Your dispute with her on a technicality is a minor side-point.

  Matthew 23: 23 and 24

  23 "...hypocrites!...you give a tenth of the mint and the dill and the cumming but you have disregarded the weightier matters of the Law, namely, justice and mercy and faithfulness...24 Blind guides, who strain out the gnat but gulp down the camel!"
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  agapa37

  Flash you said her content of the thread was how true christians ought to handle disputes....Well see for your self what she said

  We are familiar with the Jehovah's Witness method of peace. Put up and shut up. Don't make any waves. Endure your imperfect brothers for the sake of unity. But is this the Christian way? How did the early Christians resolve disputes? Did they tolerate imperfection in their brothers?

  She accused the WT not giving the accurate bible councel on how to handle disputes. So it stands!
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  Pistoff

  Flash the discussion at hand was that the WT DOESNT print information on how to handle disputes, jgnat made it. Whether or not they walk the walk was not in question here. As seen by just a few exerpts from articles we see that the accusation was false.

  Agapa, of what value is printed information if a hidden, unprinted agenda overrules it? Consider this: the WT pays lip service to what Jesus says about confronting your brother, but ONLY in matters that are not "serious" sin. WHERE is this in the scripture? The WT policy is that if you know someone is fornicating, masturbating, stealing, etc. you are to go STRAIGHT to the elders. Where does Jesus say that?

  And this: if an elder is doing something wrong, you see it and report and he denies it then you are told to LEAVE IT IN JEHOVAH'S HANDS. That of course, is WT speak for leave it alone OR ELSE. If we poll this forum, my guess is HUNDREDS could provide stories about censure not for sinning, but for pushing the matter of someone elses transgressions who were "power" when they were told to LET IT BE.

  I know of several myself.

  So: which is more important to you, the official policy or the reality? Which is more likely to affect you?
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  Pistoff

  She accused the WT not giving the accurate bible councel on how to handle disputes

  WRONG. She accuses it of not FOLLOWING the council.