Did anyone really buy into the "Universal Sovereignty" issue?

by loli 39 Replies latest jw friends

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  DanTheMan

  Similarly, for a long time, Witnesses spoke of the vindication of Jehovah’s name. But had Satan called Jehovah’s name into question? For that matter, had any of Satan’s agents done so, as if Jehovah did not have a right to that name? No, not at all. It was not the name of Jehovah that was challenged and that needed to be vindicated. That is why the Watch Tower Society’s recent publications do not speak of Jehovah’s name as being vindicated. They speak of Jehovah’s sovereignty as being vindicated and of his name as being sanctified.

  Note how the paragraph switches gears right in the middle. The old, incorrect understanding is attributed to the flock by the phrase"Witnesses spoke of...". The new, correct understanding is credited to the WTS publications. Typical.
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  Virgochik

  Yep, Dan, those darn silly Witnesses! Where DO they get their funny ideas? Good thing there's the Watchtower, to correct them!
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  loli

  Thanks to all who offered great insights! A note to riverofdeceit: I appreciate your view of the bible and what should really be the "embodiment of love." I didn't want to get too wordy on my first post, so I left it up to the reader to assume that I felt the same way. I don't know what to actually label myself these days (agnostic or otherwise). I'm definitely NON theist, that is I don't believe in a cranky old being sitting on a throne tapping his toe waiting to wipe people out for their infractions. But I think I do believe in some all-positive creative force that gives us the capacity to love. Bottom line to me is, I think most individuals, Bible authors definitely included, create god in their image instead of the other way around. Peace
• 

  jwfacts

  Welcome, and a good question.

  This always disturbed me. Why should Jehovah answer to Satan? Jehovah gave Satan and all else life, so no one could question that he has the right to take Satan's life. Why would anyone think Satan's claim that man does no need to follow the giver of life.

  Fast forward 4000 years. Jesus dies and pays the ransom. So why did Jehovah not then bring the end? Why allow another 2000 years and many billions more people to suffer the effects of sin? So we could try out a couple of extra governments???

  Simplistic and shallow reasoning.
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  truthsetsonefree

  And furthermore, why can't God do his own work? Why do people who have to work to care for themselves and their families then have to take what precious little time they have left to answer the "universal challenge?"
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  funkyderek

  I can accept - at a stretch - that Jehovah needs to prove his point to stop the angels thinking he's incompetent, but I don't get how what he does helps in that quest. According to JWs, the issue is over whether humans can rule themselves and over whether they will stay faithful to Jehovah in times of hardship. The problem is, every time humans are successful ruling themselves, Jehovah steps in and buggers things up; fire, flood, famine etc. He forces people to obey him on pain of death, and even when he is the ruler of a nation, the people rebel and have nothing but problems. After 6,000 years humans have been doing just fine except when Jehovah interferes, and 99.9% of them have decided to follow Satan instead. So what does Jehovah plan to do? Graciously admit defeat? Acknowledge that humans don't need him and would rather think for themselves? Not a bit of it! He's going to destroy them all and declare himself the winner. So it makes a certain kind of sense, but only if you view Jehovah as a megalomaniacal bully who refuses to play fair.
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  diamondblue1974

  I can accept - at a stretch - that Jehovah needs to prove his point to stop the angels thinking he's incompetent, but I don't get how what he does helps in that quest. According to JWs, the issue is over whether humans can rule themselves and over whether they will stay faithful to Jehovah in times of hardship. The problem is, every time humans are successful ruling themselves, Jehovah steps in and buggers things up; fire, flood, famine etc. He forces people to obey him on pain of death, and even when he is the ruler of a nation, the people rebel and have nothing but problems. After 6,000 years humans have been doing just fine except when Jehovah interferes, and 99.9% of them have decided to follow Satan instead. So what does Jehovah plan to do? Graciously admit defeat? Acknowledge that humans don't need him and would rather think for themselves? Not a bit of it! He's going to destroy them all and declare himself the winner. So it makes a certain kind of sense, but only if you view Jehovah as a megalomaniacal bully who refuses to play fair.

  Totally agreed. DB74
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  SirNose586

  Here's another thing that bugs me: the Society's use of Proverbs 27:11 in supporting this "universal sovereignty issue."

  ***

  w86 8/1 p. 15 Youths Who Make Jehovah’s Heart Glad ***

  Youths

  Who Make Jehovah’s Heart Glad

  "Make my heart rejoice, that I may make a reply to him that is taunting me."—PROVERBS 27:11.

  WHETHER you realize it or not, it makes a difference how you live your life. For example, it makes a difference to your parents. "A wise son is the one that makes a father rejoice," the Bible explains, "and a stupid son is the grief of his mother." (Proverbs 10:1; 23:24, 25) But even more importantly, how you live your life can make our Creator, Jehovah God, either glad or sad. "Be wise, my son," Jehovah exhorts, "and make my heart rejoice, that I may make a reply to him that is taunting me."—Proverbs 27:11.

  And for the longest time, I bought that. What a silly thought. Are they God's words, or that of Solomon? The beginning of Proverbs 25 states:

  These also are the proverbs of Sol´o·mon that the men of Hez·e·ki´ah the king of Judah transcribed:

  Any dub will bring up that Solomon was God's secretary in writing these, but when these proverbs have such a human feel to them (not unlike Poor Richard's Almanack), it's not as easy to prove as you would think. To anyone reading it, it sounds like a parent advising the child. Yet the Borg has hijacked this scripture for its own nefarious reasoning, like they did with Proverbs 4:18.
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  greendawn

  I also thought it was ridiculous for God to be put to the test to prove whether his rule was good or not. Things like that simply don't happen and it is one of the many erroneous beliefs the JWs hold, along with many other protestant groups.
  
  The creator can not be tested in that way if the creatures don't like his rule they can go where they came from.
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  sspo

  
  Welcome

  "Make my heart rejoice, that I may make a reply to him that is taunting me."—PROVERBS 27:11.

  I always found it interesting on the part of the watchtower to take vague scriptures and make a doctrine out of it such as the one above.Does not mention Satan at all. Universal issue 144k blood issue other sheep birthdays no part of the world many more doctrines that there are hardly any scripture to back them up I guess that's why when one gets baptized , you get also baptized in " the unique teachings of Jehovah's Witnesses" No one else agrees with them