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conflicted

i never said i did not wish to understand why the attacks happened and will continue to happen, what i do not wish to understand or defend is the rejoicing over the murder of thousands of men women and children.

I don't think I took your words out of context - these situations go hand in hand. We were attacked beacuse they don't agree with our way of life. They rejoice at our suffering and death because they don't agree with our way of life.

I answer to your question: If I had a family member who was a plant manager at a factory who was hated by his employess and this member of my family was assaulted, raped, stabbed tortured and killed - how would I feel/react to seeing people rejoice?

My answer is two fold: 1) My opinion of and reaction to the killers are going to be very different than that of the employees. I think no mercy should be shown to the killer or peretrators of this crime. But I would want justice to come from the proper authorities against those particular individuals rather than a vigilanty sneak attack on their families. As to the employess rejoicing over my family members death, I wouldn't want to see it - but it does come down to why. Was he hated because he was a terrible manager and treated his employees badly - I would 'understand' their rejoicing - that doesn't mean I agree with it. Did he treat his employees fairly and was hated simply because he held a position of power, then I would feel vindicated in getting in their faces and telling them how inappropriate they are behaving.

Either way a modecum of understanding is necessary before I react. You are still treating the word 'understanding' with 'support'. I can understand why they react the way they do, and at the same time NOT support their actions.

As to adding my opinion to a 'solution', you can read back and see that I hold bin laden and his organization responsible. You can also read that I want them to be tried for their crimes. That doesn't necessarily mean I want the US to invade Afghanistan, but if he doesn't turn himself in we have to go in and get him. If he commited a crime against the people of the US, he must be held accountable, regardless of his reigious beliefs.

Unfortunately, because of his religious beliefs, his people don't think he is guilty of anything. And an invasion of Afghanistan is going to be seen by his supporters as an act of war where his actions are seen as a holy act.

Whatever we do or don't do, there will be positive and negative results. There is no other view to take if you look from both sides. If you only look at it from our side and disregard where they (innocent muslims in Afghanistan) are coming from you are thinking like the terrorists.

dubla

SO please do tell me the SOLUTION to PREVENTING this THOUGHT

of course you cannot prevent the thought, no one is stupid enough to propose such a thing. you cannot prevent joe sixpack from driving his car head on into another car if he so chooses. almost any unthinkable act can be performed, and few can truly be prevented. but you already know that, and so do i. you are again avoiding the TRUE question, which i expect. you see, what i am talking about is a plan of action. you cannot prevent people from wanting to use drugs, can you? can you prevent people from using drugs? probably not. can you hunt down known drug users, prosecute known drug users/dealer, etc? of course you can, read the news tomorrow and youll probably read about a drug raid. did that raid suddendly prevent the rest of the free world from using/dealing? no. but maybe that raid saved a child down the street from ever being exposed to it. maybe, maybe not. can you prevent rape? no. can you prosecute rapists? of course you can. if a known rapist was walking your streets, would you not want the authorities to find this rapist? of course you would. why? it might possibly prevent ONE rape, or TWO rapes, or THIRTY rapes to bring this person in, correct?

you cannot simply sit back and say we are not educated enough, so no immediate plan of action agains CURRENT, KNOWN terrorists can possibly help.

aa

crossroads

jdubla----WHY when we found out a White american attacked
or own government building we looked DEEP into why.

News flash from grouind zero a simple sign 5 thousand reasons to kill them all---We as a nation want to kill them
all need to kill them all--How does Jack finish that line
we just want a reason to do it and now we think we have
that reason. Long Live White Christians. We have NEVER
liked these people peaceful or not.

"War is not the answer only love can conquer hate"

stephenw20

JDUB
I can sit back and I do say that .....I would say if MR "wanted dead or alive" wants to play that way ...then MEET with BIN-Laden and talk to the guy... where is the fear at anyway.

If someone had LISTENED to him(BIN LADEN) when we invaded IRAQ .. or at least talked to him THEN.. there would be at least a cahnce this discussion would be about penant races now and not terrorism.

Terrorism is no different than "my way is better than your way." And because you DONT HEAR me I will show you INSTEAD....

no different than Cain & ABEL.... the only solution is education & love and respect ... and if you want the fast food version .. it just wont be.....

S

conflicted

jdubla, I don't know what you want from us.

I have stated a dozen times already that bin laden has to be held accountable for what he has done - to show other would be terrorsts that this course of action will not be tollerated. crossroads has said that the US should cease funding foreign nations that resort to terrorisms. If neither of these are a plausible course of action in your opinion I don't know what to say.

dubl_a

hang on

dubl_a

conflict-

We were attacked beacuse they don't agree with our way of life. They rejoice at our suffering and death because they don't agree with our way of life.

actually you are dead wrong on this one. they may not agree with our way of life, but you need to do some serious research on bid laden if you think this is why he has attacked the u.s. this is part of a holy war for him, and he and his followers believe that god has chosen them to rid the earth of all americans/christians/jews/etc., and return it to the post-muhammad period where muslims ruled over all. this is not islamic teaching, but only the teachings of this militant group of muslims who have broken off on their own. they are what we would here call a cult.

Was he hated because he was a terrible manager and treated his employees badly - I would 'understand' their rejoicing -

this is one area that we definitely differ in conflict. i would not understand any human being rejoicing in this type of brutal murder of another human being, regardless of how bad a manager he was. i could understand their hatred of him, of course, but understand their rejoicing in his torturous death? once again, i would not want to understand this type of human sickness.

I hold bin laden and his organization responsible. You can also read that I want them to be tried for their crimes. That doesn't necessarily mean I want the US to invade Afghanistan, but if he doesn't turn himself in we have to go in and get him.

i agree with you 100% on this one. this is the course of action that needs to be taken. this course in itself is one of force/war though. you see, what i was asking for was an ALTERNATIVE solution to force/war. obviously, i did not know that you were a proponent of these actions, as i gather that the other two parties in this discussion are anti-force. on this part of the topic, you and i have no disagreement. this is what has to happen.

Unfortunately, because of his religious beliefs, his people don't think he is guilty of anything. And an invasion of Afghanistan is going to be seen by his supporters as an act of war where his actions are seen as a holy act.

very true.

aa

dubl_a

S-

I can sit back and I do say that .....I would say if MR "wanted dead or alive" wants to play that way ...then MEET with BIN-Laden and talk to the guy... where is the fear at anyway.
If someone had LISTENED to him(BIN LADEN) when we invaded IRAQ .. or at least talked to him THEN.. there would be at least a cahnce this discussion would be about penant races now and not terrorism.

you are again, sorely mistaken. bin laden wants nothing from us. he has no demands, and no amount of talking to him will convince him that he no longer needs to rid the earth of all "infidels". this is a religious belief, and these are religious attacks.

no different than Cain & ABEL.... the only solution is education & love and respect ... and if you want the fast food version .. it just wont be.....

i personally am not asking for the "fast food version" of this solution. i DO advocate force in bringing these terrorists to justice, and thereby hopefully deterring future terrorism. its that simple. this process will be anything but "fast", it will no doubt take years.

aa

dubl_a

for those of you who havent figured it out, this is still jdubla. i filled up my 25 limit post for the day so i had to grab a new i.d.

dubl_a

cross-

we just want a reason to do it and now we think we have
that reason. Long Live White Christians. We have NEVER
liked these people peaceful or not.

i do not advocate these racially motivated killings you keep speaking of, but obviously its a subject which you feel the need to preach about; it just doenst really pertain to our discussion. the only force i advocate is the force needed to bring all parties involved in the attacks to justice, the same as any other crime. that course of action may have to include acts of war. do i think we should wipe out afghanistan? no. do i think there may have to be fighting in afghanistan in order to bring in bid laden and shut down his camps? yes. pretty simple stuff, but some just dont get it.

aa

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