WHERE DID POST -FLOOD VEGETATION COME FROM? (page 2)

What-A-Coincidence

jehovah just made sure that it happened...gosh

Arthur

there was no earth-wide flood. the entire flood story was passed down from generation to generation in memory of some ancient, traumatic regional flooding.

One of the best researched books that I have ever read on this topic is: "Secret Origins of the Bible". The writer; Tim Callahan presents an enormous amount of evidence that points to the various mythological sources of the Genesis flood story.

gaiagirl

Another great book explaining how a regional flood in the body of water now known as the Black Sea served as the source of the Deluge legend, is "Noahs Flood" by William Ryan and Walter Pitman. Many threads of evidence all pointing the same event. Highly recommended!

Mary

Surprisingly, I even know a few Witnesses who do not believe there was an earth wide flood, but rather a local flood. Think about it: If you take the stories of Genesis at face value, The Flood happened about 1,000 years after Adam and Eve screwed up. There certainly wasn't enough time for mankind to have multiplied to the point where they were living on various continents all over the earth. The population still would have been mostly limited to the areas of North Africa, Turkey, Greece and around the Mediterranean Sea. Therefore, there would have been no point to God destroyed the entire physical earth by means of a global flood, as no one was living in the Americas, Middle and South Africa, Asia, etc. Talk about overkill (no pun intended). Plus, there is no geological evidence for a global flood that happened 5,000 years ago, although apparently, there is some evidence for a local flood in that region that may have happened between 7,500 - 10,000 years ago. The jury is still out on that.

As for the post-vegetation problem, I agree with jaguarbass: Even when there are local floods, much vegetation survives. However, if there was a Global Flood, fresh water would have mixed with salt water and no vegetation could have survived.....but maybe Noah's wife was the original Martha Stewart and she looked after all the seeds and plants on board.

skyking

Seeds soften from being wet that is who most germinate. So seed will withstand long periods of being wet. But once they get to this point they have to grow and if they can't they die. So yes seed can last through a flood but not one that lasted as long as the Noah's flood. All the seeds, all vegetation would be gone from the earth. Think about tidal forces from the moon this would of left a barren lifeless earth with no vegetation, no trees, no grass, not anything left rooted, the tidal action would of been like a huge scraper leaving nothing rooted in the watery deeps.

Terry

Josephus, Ussher, and other scholars disagree slightly on some of their dates. But most agree that a straightforward reading of the Bible indicates the Deluge must have taken place in the third millennium before the birth of Jesus Christ ? possibly between 2500 BC and 2300 BC. The placing of a catastrophic global flood in the year 2304 BC means that all civilizations discovered by archaeology must fit into the last 4,285 years.
Old Testament 10,000 BCE - 800 BCE
10,000 - 8000	The Natufian culture appeared in modern-day Israel - some of the first known human settlements in the world.
8000	Agriculture began in Near East as people started using "digging sticks" to plant the seeds of wild grasses which would eventually become the domesticated wheat we know today.
c. 6750	Pigs are domesticated in modern Iraq.
6500 - 6300	Wheel was invented by Sumerians who lived in the Tigris-Euphrates river basin.
c. 6000	Chickens were domesticated in southern Asia.
5508	Year of Creation, as calculated in seventh-century CE Constantinople and used by Eastern Orthodox Church until 18th century CE.
5490	Year of Creation, as calculated by Syrian Christians.
c. 5000	The earliest known cities were founded as increasing numbers of people began to gather in villages scattered around the Fertile Crescent.
4004 (October 23)	Date of Creation, as calculated by Irish theologian James Ussher in 1650 CE.
c. 4000	Horses were domesticated.
c. 4000	Sumerians in southern Mesopotamia developed the boat for water transportation.
3760	Year of Creation, as calculated by the Hebrews and used since the 15th century CE.
3641 (February 10)	Date of Creation, as calculated by the Mayans.
3500	Sumerian society developed in the Tigris-Euphrates river basin. The Sumerians made use of many agricultural advances, such as domestic animals to pull plows, irrigated desert, drained marshlands and more in order to create a large, cosmopolitan civilization. The increased output of food allowed for the further development of a "leisure class" that did not have to work for food, allowing them to become priests, artists, merchants, scholars, etc. The Sumerians also developed oar-powered ships, animal-drawn wheeled chariots and other, similar vehicles, bronze objects, and the written cuneiform alphabet.
c. 3400	Early form of hieroglyphic writing started being used in Egypt.
3100	The first Egyptian Dynasty united the southern and northern kingdoms under the rule of Menes, founder of the city of Memphis which would become the center of his authority.
c. 3000	First human settlements were established on the site of modern-day Athens.
c. 3000	Stonehenge was built in England.
c. 2980- 2950	Life of Imhotep, famed Egyptian physician. He was worshiped as a medical demigod in ancient Egypt because of his work on medical methods for treating diseases rather than simply religious methods. Imhotep was also responsible for the construction of the pyramid of Zoser (the Step Pyramid at Sakkara), the first large stone structure in the entire world.
c. 2800	Egyptians began wearing wedding rings, believing that the circular bands symbolized eternity.
2613	The Great Pyramid of Cheops at Giza was constructed by Cheops, son of the founder of Egypt's 4th Dynasty, Snefru.
c. 2600	The first recorded seagoing voyage carried Egyptian sailors to Phoenicia in search of cedarwood.
c. 2600	Chinese began cultivation of silkworms.
2560	Great Sphinx at Giza, a 189-foot long monument to King Khafra (Khafre), the third king of the 4th Dynasty, was carved.
2500	Sumerian cuneiform script was simplified from an earlier version consisting of thousands of ideograms.
2350	Sargon I founded the Akkadian empire, which ruled Mesopotamia for the next couple of centuries.
2349	The Great Flood occurred (according to fundamentalist sources).
2247	The Tower of Babel was constructed (according to fundamentalist sources).
2200	Indo-European invaders , speaking the earliest forms of Greek, entered the mainland of Greece, and the Mycenaean Civilization (named after the leading Greek city on the peninsula from 1600-1200 BCE) emerged.
2100	Ziggurat of Ur was built by Sumerian king Ur-Nammu. Sumerians called it temen, from which the later word temple was derived.
2000 - 1500	Minoan Civilization (named after the Cretan ruler Minos) reached its height with its central power in Knossos on the island of Crete. This culture may have been more female-oriented and peaceful than others at the time.
c. 2000-1700	Abraham left Ur in Chaldea (according to traditional sources). This is often called the age of the "patriarchs" ( Abraham , Isaac and Jacob ).
c. 2000	Domestic bathroom plumbing appeared in Crete.
c. 2000	Babylonians replaced Sumerians as the dominant power in the Middle East, creating a decimal system notation.
c. 1800	Babylonians are believed to have initiated the custom of the handshake. It began with grasping the hand of a statue of the god Marduk in order to receive his power symbolically and it later came to symbolize good will.
c. 1792-1750	Hammurabi ruled Babylon and created his famous legal code.
1750	The Babylonians began using windmills to pump water for irrigation.
1700 - 1500	Possible dates for when Joseph could have been in Egypt.
1660 - 1550	The Hyksos, a Semitic tribe, invaded Egypt and dominated the Nile Delta for about a century. The Hyksos were successful because they were superior archers and rode horses and chariots at the same time.
c. 1650	Cult of Yahweh , earliest form of Judaism, may have been created by Abraham and carried on by his sons.
1568	The Hyksos, a semitic tribe which had dominated the Nile Delta, was finally driven out by Egyptian leader Ahmose I, who then founded the 16th Dynasty.

1523 - 1027	Shang Dynasty in China.
1491	Date of the Exodus of the Hebrews out of Egypt. (according to fundamentalist sources)
1491	Ten Commandments were received. (according to fundamentalist sources)
c. 1479	Egyptian armies under Pharaoh Tuthmosis III defeated a confederation of Palestinian states and captured a fortress on the hill of Meggido. Christian theology predicts a final battle between good and evil on this spot (Armageddon = Hill of Megiddo). The first use of the title "Pharaoh," which means "Great House," is found here applied to Tuthmosis.
1470	A massive volcanic eruption at Thera destroyed the Minoan civilization on Crete. Because of huge waves rising up to 160 feet, the water levels along the eastern shores of the Mediterranean at first dropped, but then the Egyptian cost was flooded by large amounts of seawater, resulting in famine due to the loss of arable farmland.
1451	Hebrews arrive in Canaan (according to traditional sources)
1400	Iron Age began in Asia Minor when methods for smelting iron ore were developed
1400	Mycenaean Civilization replaced Minoan Civilization after the destruction of Knossos. Bronze weapons, war-scenes on art, Cyclopean defense walls, and the fact that male warriors were buried with their weapons provide evidence for the claim that the Mycenaeans were militaristic. The horse-drawn chariot emerged around this time and the Mycenaeans would dominate the Aegean world for about 200 years.
1349-1334	Amenhotep IV, aka Akhenaten , ruled Egypt and developed the first recorded strict monotheism. He was succeeded by his nine-year-old son Tutankhamen, who eliminated his religious reforms
1300	In Babylon they developed a new alphabetic script which was a further simplification of the cuneiform writing.
1305	Accession of Ramses II, the Great, of Egypt to pharaoh.
c. 1250	Possible date of the Exodus of the Hebrews out of Egypt. (according to modern scholars)
1232	Israelites of some sort were definitely in Canaan - Ramses II's son Merneptah defeated them in battle. They were not necessarily the same Israelites as those who left in the Exodus - they might have been from earlier emigrations.
1200-1020	Period of the Judges in Israel.
1200	Gilgamesh epic, recorded in cuneiform script, is the first known such written legend.
1193	Traditional date set for the city of Troy being destroyed by besieging Greek armies.
1146	Nebuchadrezzar I reigned as King of Babylon for 23 years.
1141	According to biblical accounts in Samuel , Israelite armies suffered massive losses to the Philistines.
1050	Philistines conquered Israel.
1027 - 771	Zhou Dynasty in China.
1020 - 922	Period of the United Kingdom of Jews.
1020	Samuel , last of the Israelite Judges, anointed Saul as the first King of Israel. Saul led a successful rebellion against Philistines.
c. 1000	Earliest Old Testament documents were created from older and highly developed oral tradition.
1000	Saul was killed at the Battle of Gilboa and was succeeded by David, first as King of Judah and then later as King of Israel. David later captured Jerusalem and made it his capital.
c. 1000-950	Biography of David may have been composed, eventually becoming a written narrative of David's life later included in I and II Samuel and I Kings .
c. 1000	Iberians invaded the region of modern Spain, giving the Iberian Peninsula its name.
961	David died and was succeeded by his son, Solomon .
953	Dedication of the Temple of Jerusalem, built by Solomon.
c. 950 - 900	Composition of the "Yahwistic" ( J ) document, one of the four major sources believed to have been the basis of the Pentateuch (Books of Moses): Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, Deuteronomy.
922	Death of Solomon, who was succeeded by his son, Rehoboam. Rebellion against Rehoboam was led by Jeroboam, leading to a split of the kingdom into two halves : Judah in the south under Rehoboam and Israel in the north under Jeroboam.
c. 900	Assyrian war chariots were equipped with metal tires (copper or bronze) for greater durability.
884	Ashurnasirpal II, Assyrian king, began a 24-year reign during which he defeated Babylon and ensured Assyrian dominance throughout the Near East.
854	Ahab of Israel joined with Ben Hadad of Damascus and Irkhuleni of Hamath in an allied army to halt Shalmaneser III. Egypt and Jehoshaphat of Judah lent support, but the alliance failed to stop the onslaught.
c. 850	Traditional date for the probable composition of Homer's epic poems The Illiad and The Odyssey.
c. 850	Traditional date for when Elijah lived and prophecized.
c. 850 - 800	Composition of the "Elohistic" ( E ) document, another major source of the Pentateuch.
842	Jehu , an Israelite soldier, led a rebellion against Jehoram, Ahab's son, and founded a new dynasty in Israel. By the next year, however, he was paying tribute to the Assyrian leaders.
814	Phoenicians founded Carthage (literally: "New Town") near their North African colony of Utica.
801	Indians began to venerate cows and dairy products.
800	Increase in trade and the establishment of governmental defense fortifications allowed for the emergence of Greek city-states from tribal communities. These grew up around marketplaces and included Athens, Thebes and Megara on the Greek mainland. The Greek city-states were considered the most famous units of Greek political life to develop in this society.
800 - 500	This period, often referred to as the Archaic period, marked the developments of literature and the arts, politics, philosophy and science. The Peloponnesian city of Corinth, Sparta and cities along the coast of the Aegean Sea flourished. For the most part, the Greek city-states were similar in their political evolution, with the exception of Sparta's elite dictatorship. Most began their political histories as monarchies, evolved to oligarchies, were overthrown during the age of the tyrants (650-500 BCE) and eventually established democracies in the sixth and fifth

jaguarbass

Nice chart of historic periods.

jayhawk1

Nice chart Terry, where did you pull it from?

dorayakii

Didn't you know, that the absence of Post-Deluvian vegetation is the reason why Jehovah-God (TM) allowed Noah and his family to eat meat?

Nathan Natas

Wait a minute, I want to comment on the submerged plants.

Genesis 7 (NIV) says:

17 For forty days the flood kept coming on the earth, and as the waters increased they lifted the ark high above the earth. 18 The waters rose and increased greatly on the earth, and the ark floated on the surface of the water. 19 They rose greatly on the earth, and all the high mountains under the entire heavens were covered. 20 The waters rose and covered the mountains to a depth of more than twenty feet. [b] , [c] 21 Every living thing that moved on the earth perished?birds, livestock, wild animals, all the creatures that swarm over the earth, and all mankind. 22 Everything on dry land that had the breath of life in its nostrils died. 23 Every living thing on the face of the earth was wiped out; men and animals and the creatures that move along the ground and the birds of the air were wiped from the earth. Only Noah was left, and those with him in the ark.

Two points, if I may -

1. Everything was covered by at least 20 feet of water for a YEAR.

As an experiment, take some garden seeds and let them soak in 20 feet of water for a year and then tell me how many germinate. I'm thinking of a number between zero and zero; can you guess what it is? I'll bet that even a lotus would not germinate in 20 feet of water. Likewise for established plants - show me a plant that can be covered - not just "wet feet" but COVERED - to the top and 20 feet beyond - with water for a year and survive that treatment. One addition thing to consider is that light intensity at 20 feet below the surface of a body of water is a fraction of what it is at the surface. Photosynthesis and other herbaceous metabolic processes would have stopped. Even a plant deprived of "the breath of life" will die.

2. In verse 23 the inspired and infallible word of God says that every living thing that was on the face of the earth died. It doesn't say "except plants," it says EVERY LIVING THING.

WHERE DID POST -FLOOD VEGETATION COME FROM?

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