Did Bethel Really let 900 rescue workers...

by Esmeralda 34 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  dubla

  nytel-

  i realize that when i challenge your intelligence level, you are simply taking this as some kind of childish name calling or something along those lines. in actuality, im really issuing you a challenge! if you can indeed respond to these statements, and you do indeed possess the intelligence needed, then prove me wrong.....and stop dodging. until such time i will continue to expose your lack of intelligence, and lack of disscussion/argumentative skills. your true response rate must be somewhere in the lower teens (10-15%), as you normally will choose to introduce new ideas into the conversation before resolving the old ones. hence your newfound love of the word "obsession". i was not dismissing your use of the word "obsession" as a jibe, i was merely pointing out that you wished to side-track me with it, which is still your intent. your tactics are very transparent to all.

  aa
• 

  Bridgette

  Seeker,
  You wrote: "Well, their initial reaction was bad, and represents their true heart inclination
  -- take care of themselves, and ignore everyone else."
  To this, I say amen! I also agree with your sentiment, that if they're doing right, let's call it right. I think they were probably shamed into it, but whatever works. It doesn't have to diminish in anyway the pain of our experiences in the ORG--and the fact that they have a history of lying. IF they're changing, becoming less dogmatic, more loving--I say wonderful! Maybe they've read what we "dirty apostates" have said, maybe they're learning that you can't cut human beings off from each other. I think this is a good sign. You know, people, we speak for those who are in, who cannot speak for themselves. Maybe they are mainstreaming--I say GREAT for all the people who are still "in".
  Make no mistake: the rank and file hold ALL the power here. Any religion, government, organization is subject to its people. No matter WHAT they try to say. And religions are especially dependant upon their adherants (they can't tax their people like a govt, adn so are dependant upon "donations" for fiscal survival--also they can't kill their people for "policing" them, like a govt). So most rely on fear to control their masses. When the people decide they've had ENOUGH, and the entity's (that is .the organization's) survival is at risk, they'll pretty much do whatever it takes to keep those people. Now, knowing that most of those in the ORG are loving at the individual level, they will demand that their organization reflect love. The organization will evolve to meet the demands of her converts, or she will perish. Either that, or she may attempt to find some way of making them fear (fear is so much more effective and easier) But looking at the history of religious movements, my money is on evolution of the organization. They're not the worst religion on the face of the earth. It seems they started out with fairly good intentions.
  Bridgette
• 

  Esmeralda

  Seeker, I agree with you, if they're doing good, then I'm glad for it. I believe that everyone should do all they can to help, and I have not critisized the WT for any efforts to that end other than 'serving refreshments' to JW's who got out of the buildings. That sounded like an insult.

  I will be happy if the critisism of the organization prodded them to do what they should have been doing to begin with. If they simply reacted slowly...out of shock perhaps, then that would be understandable. But they have said nothing to that effect.

  My outrage came from seeing footage of police and firefighters sleeping on the sidewalk, next to their dogs with nothing to comfort them. Knowing that Bethel has the capacity to house them and feed them in this time of need.

  Perhaps they were touched by the same sights right in their back yard and decided to help. In any event, if they are helping, then I applaud them as I applaud anyone who is working with this clean up effort. I posted this thread only to try to find out of anyone could verify the story I was told. So far, no one has been able to confirm or deny it.

  This thread has degenerated into an arguement between two people which is disheartening. Most people will not read to the end through their bickering to read the on topic posts. How about it you two? How about moving your arguement to the arguement forum where it belongs?

  Meantime, NYtelecom I have and will again express my sorrow for anyone who has suffered due to these events. I can't even imagine the horror that you have witnessed in the past six days.

  The only people I critisize are those who do nothing. Anyone else has my admiration, regardless of how I feel about their religious practices.

  essie
• 

  messenger

  Please let this thread die a peaceful death. It painfully obvious that there has been no relief effort from WT and there will be none forthcoming unless a plane happens to hit bethel.
• 

  Seeker

  Esmeralda,

  Thanks for understanding my desire to point out the good as well as the bad.

  If they simply reacted slowly...out of shock perhaps, then that would be understandable.

  I think that actually is what happened, to be honest. They were shocked, as we all were, and probably wondered if there were more targets, as those of us in NYC were wondering, and they probably reacted in fear initially. I totally understand that. But it told me something too. They say you can tell what a person is truly like when they are under great stress, or in an emergency. All the pretense falls aside, and their true nature emerges under the adrenaline rush. A person concerned for others shows that concern then, even while running for their lives. A person who is selfish shows that selfishness then, especially while running for their lives.

  Last Tuesday, the GB got a shock, and in the adrenaline rush that followed they showed their true character. It was not one of Christian caring and charity. It was not the way Jesus would have acted. Their initial response was to lock the doors in fear and ignore those around them.

  Whatever else good they may have done later, or are doing now or in the near future, that initial response told me all I needed to know about their claims of true Christianity -- it is false. Their true nature is selfish and fearful -- "Me first". Now that they have recovered their composure, and are again thinking about putting on their best face for the public, they may well be doing some good things. They may even have some charitable feelings toward the rescue workers. But that initial reaction was ugly, for that is what they are like at the core.
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  Moxy

  if i might reply to the original question, the WTs press release video mentions 850-900 people being fed in the dining room altogether, the majority of which, i think everyone agrees, were WT tourists. why would 900 rescue workers be way on the other side of the river anyways? were there even that many rescue workers on the scene? i think this is another urban legend in the making. bits of truth combined and twisted. next thing, one of the firefighters will have been so impressed by bethel he accepted a study and came into the truth and is now a circuit overseer.

  mox
• 

  gumby

  The dubs have done MANY good things to help others as can be found in many yearbooks regarding tradgedy's and how they have helped others. So have the mormon's.
  The sad part is.....when armaggedon comes....all these ones they helped are going to DIE if they do not become witnesses. If they could only believe they are not the only ones that will be saved perhaps they wouldn't get the"damned if they do, damned if they don't" treatment.
• 

  Room 215

  Hi all,
  There's no need to speculate as to this and whther the reports of Bethel having helped 900 fire fighters, etc. If it's true, they'll be the first to trumpet it loudly.
• 

  Bridgette

  Good point, Gumby. I keep going back over and over again to the point that I was taught, by the WTBTS that no matter what kind of good you did, if you set yourself up as something you're not (god's true religion, as they applied to Christendom) that it really doesn't matter, if you lie. I used to look at the way they treated Catholics. Now, I'm no fan of the Catholic Church, but JW's would not even have the bible if it weren't for faithful monks who spent their whole lives transcribing. They had orphanages, Mother Theresa, schools, they feed the poor(we, as JW's when I was growing up were discouraged from even participating in canned food drives) Does any one else remember this? WE WERE DISCOURAGED FROM PARTICIPATING IN CANNED FOOD DRIVES FOR THE POOR! It used to kill me. I'm a rabid charity giver now.
  Now, if they want to put on a good face, do a little non agenda charity work and if some hurting people benefit--Then great. Maybe they're even changing! But what they held out for Christendom applies to them. When you're lying, it doesn't matter. It doesn't matter if you do all the good in the world. You worship the kind of god that focuses on the negative. Look at the Catholic CHurch, it never mattered what good they had ever done, all they only focused on the fact that they lied and killed people. Which they did. The WTBTS lies, AND kills peoples' souls, and has been spiritually responsible for many deaths due to a not well thought out blood policy.
  Just my two cents.
  Bridgette
• 

  gumby

  Not only the blood policy
  1.Vaccines
  2.organ transplants
  3.Divorcing your mate for insisting on oral sex
  4.Going to prison instead of using your conscience with alternative service
  Family's have been torn apart with their twisted views of disfellowshiping.
  Yes....they are resposible for many lives ruined.