did Jesus give the name of God ???

by Ade 16 Replies latest watchtower bible

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  Satanus

  the fact that we dont find the name in the New Testament

  You answered your own question. While some translations add the name, reliable greek manuscripts don't have it.

  S
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  sinis

  Sinis,
  
  Do you believe that Jesus was just another son of El, and that it was El who loved the world so much that he gave Jesus to die for us?

  I don't think that Jesus was a son of god (El). Really if you think about it what was ransomed? if you kidnape my child and ask for a ransom (usually money) than I have to trade money for my child. In the end I'm out the money but received my child back. So if Jesus was the son of god (which I do not believe) then what was lost? What was gained? Why would ALMIGHTY god require an archain sacrifice of sorts? When your child sins against you do you make him roast the family dog out back to satisfy your justice? Or when your sons sins against you do you hold his sin against his children, until time indefinite? It makes no sense. In fact up until the mid 1800's it was believed that god tricked satan into accepting a deal (the death of jesus) but in the end raised his son back thus nullifying the offer, yet satan was stuck holding an empty bag. After that christainities idea of the ransom changed.

  Also, of note is why do none of the historians of that time speak of jesus? If he was so well known then why does Paul not even address him, since his writings came before the Gospels, and Paul was in jerusalem? Why to the dead sea scrolls and other records in the caves of Qumran not address christianity? Was it even as big as Paul has us to believe, or fabricated later in time? Too many questions and not enough answers. I would like to believe in a better afterlife or even perfect surroundings, but I keep thinking this might be it. Who says we were made perfect. As one other poster said, the level of perfection depends on the designer and creator. Perhaps, like the car manufacturers today, man was made to live a finite amount of time...
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  sinis

  Hi Sinis,
  i appreciate your thoughts although i do not necessarily agree with them, after reading this portion of scripture more carefully it seems to cover in 17:10 that all Gods things are Jesus's and vice versa, placing them on an equal plane. which is hard for me to accept as ive never believed in a trinity type scenario
  
  then there is also as Narkissos rightfully pointed out 17:11 " protect them in YOUR name that you have GIVEN ME"
  Which again seems to indicate that Jesus has been given/has GODS name.
  again pointing to the fact they are literally one and the same.
  
  This is a difficulty for me as i stated i have never believed in a trinity, or is that is whats being stated here.
  
  God bless you all
  Ade

  And yet your son or child no doubt would have access to your things. In ancient tradition the son inherited all things. Yet the son and the father were different. You also have your fathers name(last name), yet you are two seperate entities. I think that the writters of the NT and even OT used language familiar to the readers of the day. Property rights, name usage etc. have been woven into those scriptures, yet I don't come away with beleiving they are one and the same - just as a father and son are different.
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  Narkissos

  I'd suggest that the major difference between Gnostic thinking and later "orthodox" Trinitarian doctrine lies in the status of the believers. In Gnostic thinking those are not simply "creatures," radically separate from the "creator". They are "children of God". The true light shining among darkness is already in them. In revealing the "name" or true identity/nature of the Father, the Son reveals their true identity/nature, awakening them to the knowledge of who/what they really are. As a result of this revelation all are one as the Son and Father are one. In this perspective the insistence on the divine ego eimi ("I am") as voiced by both the Son and the believer (cf. John 9:9) takes all its force.
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  Ade

  Sinis,
  i agree , and too many things point to the fact they are an image of one another, however not the same being. sayings like "let your will be done" would surely be rendered "let my will be done" if Jesus was the Almighty.
  
  All the best
  Ade
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  metatron

  In regard to John 17:6 and other texts that refer to "your Name", the idea that Jesus was telling them that God's name is Jehovah is sheer

  nonsense. The disciples were well aware of human names that were derived from "Jehovah" or Yahweh like Elijah, Jehoshaphat or even

  Mattanyahu ( Matthew). They were Hebrews, for heaven's sake!

  God's Name can also refer to His reputation, power or authority - as the Insight book quietly admits ( page 12, volume 2)

  Jesus performed lots of miracles and thereby manifested God's "Name". The same goes for "Our Father in the heavens, hallowed be thy

  name". There is no proof that Jesus meant the simple name "Jehovah", rather he meant God's reputation, his sacred standing amoung

  humans.

  The Jews gave up using the Name "Jehovah" ( or Yahweh) in public especially when Gentiles were around - which you can see for yourself

  in the book of Daniel, who uses all sorts of phrases like "Ancient of Days" or "Most High", or "Supreme One" when speaking openly

  but uses "Jehovah" more privately in prayer. The Name is missing from Esther completely.

  Heck, even Jehovah avoided using the Name Jehovah! Read John 12: 28 !

  The overall purpose was to give emphasis to Jesus' own name - and have all nations accept God as their Father, not to establish

  some sort of cult, obsessed with a magic name, "Jehovah".

  metatron
• 

  Ade

  Hi Metatron,
  exactly as i stated my friend, On'-om-ah
  Onoma : A "NAME" ( literally or figuratively ),( authority / character ) -called (sur)name
  showing the authority ( through Jesus ) which God had. Giving an example of Gods power and showing the power Jesus would/Had received through the Almighty.
  
  all the best
  Ade