Your going to the meetings whether you like it or not!

Atlantis

Your going to the meetings whether you like it or not! Thousands of Jehovah's Witness children have heard those threatening words backed-up with spankings, whippings, or even severe beatings. Many Jehovah's Witness children have endured this abusive treatment until they were old enough to move out, and start a life of their own seeking a path to freedom. Unfortunately, this abusive treatment of children and teens goes on even today in congregations of Jehovah's Witnesses all over the world. People everywhere are earnestly searching to find out the truth about Jehovah's Witnesses and how they treat their children, because they have been told from Watchtower literature that Jehovah's Witnesses are the happiest people in the world. (WT-52-12-15-p.747) http://x5.freeshare.us/122fs136642.jpg However, is this Watchtower claim of being the happiest people in the world true for Jehovah's Witness children? Can they really be classified as "volunteer ministers"? Are JW children really volunteering? Or are they being "forced" to go to the meetings and engage in the ministry work? If you are studying with one of Jehovah's Witnesses or thinking about being baptized to become one of Jehovah's Witnesses, we hope you will consider some of the counsel from Watchtower literature, that later you will be forced to obey concerning your own children! People have asked us: Is it true that Jehovah's Witness children are "forced" to go to the Kingdom Hall? Watchtower-1960-January-15-p.49 "The wise parent today keeps his children close by him. He is interested in them, and regularly studies the Bible with them at home. He follows all the wise counsel of God's Word, in properly training his children. When it comes to meeting time, he appreciates that itis not a matter of asking the children, Would you like to come along? Or of suggesting tothem, Do you feel too tired tonight, deary? Nor does he take them along just because there is no one at home to look after them. He does not leave the children at home for fear they may be too noisy at the meeting. He takes the little ones to the meeting,whether they wantto go or not, and if they misbehave, he corrects them, not by bribing them with candy, but by applying a good spanking as needed. They soon understand that they are there to listen andto learn." http://www.wirefiles.com/show.php/5596_wt6020001.jpg **************************************************************************************** My comments: Does it sound to you like the child or children in the above quote had a choice? So this Watchtower quote helps us to understand that in a house-hold of Jehovah's Witnesses, the "children" are not asked, or even given a "suggestion" as to whether they want to go to the meetings or not. There is no choice in the matter! Jehovah's Witness children are told that they are going to the meetings whether they like it or not. The child's physical condition, or being to tired to go to the meetings, or their being irritable to the point of misbehaving will result in being given a "good spanking". So, in-other-words, the meetings are held in higher regard than the child's own physical condition! The quote above never once made a request of the parent to find out "why" the child was tired. Some Jehovah's Witness children and teens have been told: 1. Can't you wait to go to the bathroom until the meeting is over? 2. Go to the bathroom now, because when we get into the car to go to the assembly, we are not stopping! 3. If you don't answer at the meeting today there will be no TV tonight! 4. You were looking around and not paying attention at the meeting and if it happens again, your going to get a good whipping! 5. The next time I catch you with those worldly kids I am taking you before the elders! These are just a few examples. ****************************************************************************************** Is it true that the Watchtower Society "promotes" spanking children? Awake-1980-November-22-p. 28 ? SHOULD CHILDREN BE SPANKED?? "The Bible shows that spanking does have value as a form of discipline when appropriate. ?Agood spanking won?t kill him,? the Bible says at Proverbs 23:13 and 14. ?As a matter of fact, it may save his life.? (Today?s English Version)??Awake!,? 5/8/79, p. 28." See bottom right of scan: http://img169.imageshack.us/img169/1451/spank10001ce3.jpg Awake-1985-October-8-p.31 Disagreeing with these psychologists is a mother of three children, aged 4 to 8, who feels spankingmakes for good communication: ?Other forms of punishment just don?t seem to make much of an impression on them.? http://x5.freeshare.us/122fs190837.jpg ***************************************************************************************** My comments: So what is the difference between the word "spanking" and the two words "good spanking"? A Jehovah's Witness believes that a "good spanking" is a thorough spanking. A spanking with several blows that make it very clear to their child, that his or her conduct will no longer be tolerated. Even if the offense is as minor as opening a candy wrapper and making a small disturbance at their meetings! (See KM quotes at very bottom of this post). What does the Watchtower teach as the first thing a child should learn from infancy? Should the child be taught about God, the Bible, or love for parent? No! The Watchtower counsels that the first thing a child should be taught from infancy, is to go to the meetings at the Kingdom Hall to listen! (See bottom right with arrow/--KM-88-5-p.1) http://www.badongo.com/pic/294103 The Jehovah's Witness believes that the word "good" in the two words "good spanking", implies that the spanking is being done for: (1) a good purpose, (2) for the good of the child, (3) they are showing love for their child, (4) the Watchtower Society counsels that it is the right thing to do, (5) they are obeying God by obeying his Word, (6) the spanking will result in saving the child from Sheol, (7) that the child will love them more later on in life for doing so. However, which number in the list above carries more weight with Jehovah's Witnesses? The answer to that question, is # 4. Why? Because Jehovah's Witnesses believe that the Watchtower Society is God's mouthpiece therefore, what the Watchtower dictates is believed even more than what the Bible has to say on the matter. (God's mouthpiece WT-43-7-1-p. 203) http://www.badongo.com/pic/294778 How do we know this is true? The Bible encouraged forgiveness in the case of the Prodical Son at (Luke 15: 11-32), he was welcomed back with open arms even after all his errors. Would the Watchtower counsel accordingly? Or would the Watchtower counsel a JW to disown their own child for committing some of the same errors? Answer: Yes! The Watchtower commands treating a son or daughter as an illegitimate child, to be ousted from the home if they choose not to be part of the universal theocracy! Please note # 9 below. ********************************************************************************************** Watchtower-1952-July-1-pp. 414-415 1.The Watchtower Society says to take the children to meetings. But what if they are too small to understand? Or what if those old enough do not want to go??D. C., New York. "The Society says that children should be taken to the congregational meetings because theBible says so." 2. "What about older children who do not want to attend meetings? If you let children, whether very young or in their teens, balk at attending theocratic meetings on the grounds that they do not want to go, then do you let them balk at going to secular public schools when they are very young or in their teens, just because they do not like school? You make them go, do you not, regardless of what they personally prefer?" 3. "Why do you make them? Because you think public school education more valuable to them than theocratic education?" 4. "Or do you insist on their going because the law of the land requires it, and you fear to disobey the secular law? Well, does not God?s law require you to train your children in all the provided theocratic ways? and is not disobedience to his law a more fearsome thing than disobedience to the state?" 5. "Some parents in the truth make the mistake of adopting a worldly viewpoint on meeting attendance. If the child does not wish to go to the Kingdom Hall the parent may excuse it on the grounds that it is small, or gets nothing out of the meeting if forced to go, or creates a disturbance." 6. "The Bible does not allow exceptions on these grounds." 7. Some parents argue that they do not make their children attend because they do not wish to force them into the truth; they believe in waiting until the child is old enough to take its own stand. When the child reaches an age of responsibility it will take its own stand, but why not give it a good start during its formative years, a start along the right path that leads to life, instead of letting it alone for it to become a prey to childish folly and Satan? Protect the child from itself and others.?Prov. 22:6, 15. 8. "As long as children are under the parental roof and under parental responsibility they should obey the family head. Children must learn that they cannot always have their way, that they have a head over them, just as the wife does, the man does, the church does, and Christ does." 9. "If Jehovah?s children in the universal theocratic family do not obey him they are ousted from his household and no longer viewed as sons and daughters, but consideredillegitimates." 10. "If the head of the human family, the man, is in the truth but does not have his children in subjection?which would certainly include subjection in the most important matter of Jehovah?s worship?then he is not to be used as a servant in the congregation." 11. "So children should be subject to parents, and that includes subjection to the parentalrequirement that they attend meetings." 12. "So shun the easy and lax worldly view that children may drift until grown and then choose their own religion." 13. "So we should not reason in worldly ways with a worldly mind, but get God?s mind on these matters and make his thoughts our thoughts. " 14. "In Israel stubborn children could be stoned. 15. "Joshua did not allow each one in his household to choose his own religion, whether to serve Jehovah or some false god." QUOTES 1-15 are shown here: http://x5.freeshare.us/121fs989229.jpg http://www.badongo.com/pic/295207 ***************************************************************************************** Watchtower-1982-October-15-p.26 "Over and over again young persons express appreciation for the regular efforts their parents madeto take them to meetings where God?s Word is discussed, whether they originallywanted to go or not." http://www.wirefiles.com/show.php/6000_goornot10001.jpg Is forcing children or young adults to go to the meetings or in the field ministry in their best interest? Obviously not! Because the Kingdom Ministry of 1/98 states: "2 Some brothers show a lack of respect at the meetings by being noisy or acting as if the information presented were unimportant. A few adults carry on needless conversations in the foyer, lobby, rest room, or outside of the Kingdom Hall while the meeting is in progress. When an older child is left to supervise a younger one, sometimes the two begin playing and derive little benefit from the program. Some youths have been seen outside the Kingdom Hallafter meetings, playing, being excessively noisy, even making karatelike movements toward one another. In some cases they have disturbed the neighbors or interfered with traffic in the parking lot or street." My comments: It may interest some to know that many "worldly churches", (as the Watchtower calls them), have better success with their religious programs, than the descriptions the Watchtower admits above! And many of these (worldly churches), do not force any of their programs on anyone! Especially not the children! By-the-way, the quote above included JW "adults"! In fact, the Watchtower admits the following: (WT-86-1-1p.13) 12 Shocking as it is, even some who have been prominent in Jehovah?s organization have succumbed to immoral practices, including homosexuality, wife swapping, and child molesting. It is to be noted, also, that during the past year, 36,638 individuals had to be disfellowshipped from the Christian congregation, the greater number of them for practicing immorality. (WT-86-1-1-p.13) http://www.wirefiles.com/show.php/5967_shocking10001.jpg Does the above quote declaring those admissions and numbers, sound to you like "forced attendance" has been working for the Watchtower Society? Some of the very ones described in that quote as "prominent", were some of the very same children who were spanked, whipped, or severely beaten and forced to attend JW meetings or participate in the field ministry! So forcing those described above to attend meetings or to go in the field ministry, did them absolutely no good at all! ************************************************************************************************ Conclusion: Those who have defended the Watchtower Society and accused us of lying about JW children being forced to attend meetings, can research some of the older WT literature and find out that we were telling them the truth the whole time. How many Jehovah's Witnesses have actually considered the testimonies of people who received this kind of abuse? How many JWs have actually seen some of the scars that were left on former JWs from beatings they received 20, 30, or 40 years ago? Forcing a child, teenager, or anyone to go to a religious meeting against their will, usually results in their hatred for God instead of love for Him. This abuse has caused hatred for the Bible, all churches, and many charitable organizations who are earnestly trying to help their neighbor. In fact, some young adults after having been traumatized by such unloving practices, have made it a point to stay as far away as they can from anything that represents God. Spanking, whipping, or beating a child or giving them "no other choice" but to submit or else, is nothing more than child abuse. Yes, children need loving discipline, but those decisions should be left up to the parent and not some "faithful slave class" that can't even write a book without having to make 70 corrections! The fact of the matter is, if the authorities arrested all the JW parents who were whipping their children into attending meetings, there would not be enough jails in some districts to hold them all. And that doesn't include all the "pedophiles" running rampant in the Watchtower organization that need to be locked-up also! Parents know their children better than any man-made organization, and they are better qualified to know the who, what, when, where, and why their children need discipline, and what the best methods are for the child's best development. No we are not implying that all Jehovah's Witnesses act as described here. There are some JWs who have been very successful in bringing up their children and they are to be commended. However, how many other churches disfellowship almost 37,000 of their own members in one year? How many other churches require two witnesses in child abuse cases? What if the next child that is abused or raped is yours? Would you go around the Kingdom Hall searching for two witnesses to the crime to fess-up? Or would you go ahead and call the Police? So, if you are considering studying with one of Jehovah's Witnesses, we highly recommend you research those hidden topics they don't tell you at your door, NOW, before you get caught-up in a cult that will only train you to say to your child, Your going to the meetings whether you like it or not! *********************************************************************************************** Things every Jehovah's Witness must be aware of when going to the Kingdom Hall! Especially the children! Kingdom Ministry Quotes: KM-7-86 CONDUCT IMPORTANT 3 When we invite others to attend meetings, we should do so with confidence that what they observe there will represent well Jehovah?s name and Kingdom. As the true God, his ?dignity is above earth and heaven,? and our conduct when at the Kingdom Hall should uphold this dignity. (Ps. 148:13) Never would we want our dress,grooming, or conduct to disturb our brothers and sisters or stumble someone who may be visiting. 4 Each one should exercise neighbor love and be careful not to cause distractions.Whispering, eating, chewing and snapping gum, rattling candy wrappers, making unnecessary trips to the rest room, and habitually arriving late all interfere with others? concentration and detract from the dignity due Jehovah?s place of worship. ?Love . . . does not behave indecently,? and such poor manners are out of place in the Kingdom Hall. (1 Cor. 13:4, 5; Gal. 6:10) Worldly meeting places are often unsightly and even damaged when people carelessly dispose of chewing gum, candy, and food. All of us, and especially parents ofyoung children, should take care that we do not spoil Jehovah?s building in this way.?Compare Deuteronomy 23:14. KM-1-98 3 Respectful and appreciative parents do not allow their children to soil the carpet, upholstery, or walls of the Kingdom Hall or the home where the book study is held. And doubtless all of us agree that there certainly is no place for any kind of shameful conduct, foolish talking, or obscene jesting at our meetings.?Eph. 5:4. KM-5-76 And you know that dropping gum or candy on the carpet or floor, or spilling the baby?smilk on it, or neglecting to wipe your feet on coming into the hall, are all things that make floor care very difficult. Some walls and chairs can easily be spotted or damaged. Carelessness can make an ugly eyesore, and to fix it may require much time and expense. Cheers! Atlantis

juni

Read some of what you posted and had to quit because I was a parent who forced my kids to go to mtgs. I didn't punish them in any way if they couldn't though. But it had to be a good reason.

I had to stop reading because it made me feel sick and teary eyed because of what I put my kids through.

DAMN that religion! I wasted so many good years w/my kids and putting them through this hellish controlling crapola.

It brings me some comfort when my kids have told me, "Mom. You did what you thought was right." And they are right. But it doesn'l lessen the pain.

Juni

fullofdoubtnow

I've known plenty of jw kids who obviously hated being at the meetings, but were forced to go anyway, and were "lovingly disciplined" by their parents if they misbehaved while there. A fair percentage of those kids stopped attnding when they became adults. Maybe the "loving discipline" didn't work with them.

fleaman uk

Yeah,i was "lovingly disciplined"and "encouraged"to enjoy/participate at the meetings as a Child.

Im surprised the bruises ever healed up.Stupid crap parents.If they ever did leave the religion ..the ol,"we did what we thought was best "crap wouldnot wash with me.Hitting Kids and psychologically bullying them is a terrible form of child abuse and unforgiveable imo.

Whether JW,s or not my Parents are dead in my eyes.

Atlantis

juni:

We understand your pain because we did the very same thing as most of the JW parents did!

The daughter now tells us, that if she had been in our shoes she probably woyld have done the very same thing to. She left the organization after we did because she could see there was no love shown.

We were in for over 45 years and 20 of those years was spent in the pioneer service. Yet when we left we were forgotten in about a week.

When our daughter saw this kind of unloving attitude, she said to herself: "Well if they act this way with mom and dad then they will do the same to me"!

So she left and has been so much happier in removing such a heavy weight.

Don't worry juni, love conquers all those hurt feelings we all have!

The best to you dear friend!

Atlantis & Nevada-

Atlantis

fullofdoubtnow:

Maybe the "loving discipline" didn't work with them.

Your absolutely right fullofdoubtnow!

Many JW children can only take about 18 years of it, all the time holding in their real disgust for being forced. The first chance they get to leave the house, they take it and many don't look back. Then their JW parents wonder why they never get a call or a letter!

Thanks!

Cheers! Atlantis & Nevada-

Atlantis

fleaman uk:

We also felt the wrath of beatings.

Nevada walks with a slight limp due to internal damage from her beatings. She has severe leg cramps from a damaged leg muscle from a very large belt-buckle her father used on her.

I have scars even today from many years ago on my back, legs, knees, arms, rear, and feet.

In older days we were taken outside the Kingdom Hall and taken around the back of the hall to be whipped. Then as the years went by, more of the whippings were done in the bathrooms because the public were starting to take notice of the treatment.

But we survived. And many others have to!

Thanks! Atlantis & Nevada-

Jerohobobonadad

I am not an expert by any means, but I always thought that children's (under 8 or 9) bedtimes were supposed to be around 7 or 8pm. I think it's odd to make a child got to bed at this time on any night, but not on Tues or Thurs when the meetings are on. Surely it messes with their circadian rythyms? I remember being kept up till 11pm after every group or Thurs meeting when I was small (once we'd dropped off the old dear who lived miles out in the sticks). I didn't mind though cos I always got chips from the chippie after the meeting- yum yum! But only if I was good....

becca1

Two funny (pathetic) stories:

1- When I was around 3yrs old. we meet in an old rented building that had bats. Once during a meeting, a bat landed on my arm and I screamed. My dad, left the platform, picked me up, took me outside and spanked me.

2- When my son was little he was very fidgety at the meetings. I would take him outside and talk to him or let him run around so he would calm down. Once, when I came back inside a young black brother approched me in the KH lobby and said: "What that boy needs is a black whoopin' "!

megsmomma

My step-dad (who wasn't a JW) would make me go, even after my pet had just died, or I would be "going nowhere" for the rest of the week. I try not be be bitter about the JW's...but reading the posts show that we have a right to feel that way!

Your going to the meetings whether you like it or not!

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