What ever happened to homosexual GB member Leo Greeenlees, is he dead now? (page 3)

fjtoth

Mary and CaptainSchmideo,

There truly is another side of the picture:

Since leaving JWs, some absolutely ridiculous rumors have been spread about me personally for the purpose of making the WT Society look good. The worse I look, the better the Society looks for getting rid of me. So this sort of thing works two ways. I believe it’s quite possible that rumors could have been invented concerning Greenlees to make the other members of the GB look good. At the time he was dismissed, not everybody at Bethel held the GB in high esteem. There was an undercurrent of feeling that a lot of unfairness was going on. Greenlees was the type to go to bat for the little guy. And I remember very well the woman I mentioned above who did her best to spread the story that Greenlees was immoral. She was notorious for buttering up and snuggling up to GB members and their wives.

Due to the Society’s subtle skill at destroying people’s reputations where it suits their purpose, even my own mother, brother and sister are convinced that the malicious rumors about me are true. I, for one, have no problem in understanding why someone like Greenlees has had his name dragged through the mud, even though I remember him as decent, devout, kind and hard-working above average among the JWs I have known.

For all we know, Greenlees could have been dismissed for being too much of a freethinker. I noticed quite often that in private he didn't subscribe to some of the notions presented by other member of the GB.

I’m not saying it was impossible for him to do wrong, even great wrong. My question is, how do we know for sure? Is he being judged according to the facts or according to malicious gossip?

Frank

Kaput

I’m not saying it was impossible for him to do wrong, even great wrong. My question is, how do we know for sure? Is he being judged according to the facts or according to malicious gossip?

Unless one has pictures of him in "compromising" situations, or a court transcript relative to the matter of his pedophilia, or WBTS records documenting the real reason for his "reassignment", or a signed admission of guilt, then it really is difficult to know for sure.

CaptainSchmideo

Greenlees was the type to go to bat for the little guy. And I remember very well the woman I mentioned above who did her best to spread the story that Greenlees was immoral. She was notorious for buttering up and snuggling up to GB members and their wives.

I, for one, have no problem in understanding why someone like Greenlees has had his name dragged through the mud, even though I remember him as decent, devout, kind and hard-working above average among the JWs I have known.

For all we know, Greenlees could have been dismissed for being too much of a freethinker. I noticed quite often that in private he didn't subscribe to some of the notions presented by other member of the GB

It would indeed be ironic that this man, who has been a poster-boy on the internet for pedophilia and perversion at the highest ranks, turns out to be a "reformer" instead.

Of course, with as many people here who have told this tale, is anyone here in a position to definitely substantiate the stories we have been hearing all these years. And I don't mean the kind that starts "My cousin has a friend who used to clean rooms at Bethel, and she said..."

AlanF

I've had two Watchtower officials and one former Bethelite confirm to me the fact that Leo Greenlees was convicted by the GB in 1984 for molesting a young boy. That's largely the basis for the material that Blondie posted. The former Bethelite was quite happy to learn that Greenlees had been exposed on the Net since the mid-1990s. One WTS official was quite put out that I mentioned it to him, and wondered why I was bringing up stuff long in the past. The other official was frank about it, and even filled in some details that I hadn't known before. So the charges against Greenlees are not mere rumor or hearsay.

Anyone who wishes to confirm this can call the Brooklyn Bethel phone number and ask about Greenlees. I'm certain that they'll get something like "no comment" rather than flat-out denial. That's quite different from the reaction one would get with respect to someone who has had no accusations, such as, say, Karl Klein, for whom the response would likely be "that's preposterous".

AlanF

Athanasius

Though it has been a few years since I read Crisis of Conscience, if I remember correctly, Leo Greenlees was a liberal on issues like blood, alternate service, etc. Could he have been removed from the GB for political reasons, while at the same time the Watchtower disinformation service spread rumors of sexual impropriety to keep him from speaking out as Ray Franz did? It would also be a warning to other liberals on the GB to toe the line or be exiled in disgrace.

Remember all the rumors circulating in the early 1980s that Ray Franz, while still a GB member, gave the Memorial Talk in a congregation and invited all to partake? There are lots of rumors, but are there any hard facts that would stand up in a court of law?

fjtoth

Alan,

I won't deny what you're saying, but I still have some reservations. I wonder how "loyal" the WT officials were trying to be. When I was at Bethel, persons high up in the Service and Writing Departments (and in the Bethel Office) spoke the party line when I actually knew better and when I was aware that they were trying to hide something in doing so. Persons who were always honest with me in normal matters took on an air of condescension when I brought up something they thought I had no business asking about. And that was true of persons in lesser station as well. Knowing Greenlees as well as I did, including his Scottish temperament and lack of patience sometimes with persons who mishandled the Bible, I'm prone to give him the benefit of the doubt and to suspect that he was dismissed for a reason other than what most of us have heard. I know I could be wrong, but I'd rather err on the side of caution instead of accusing him when all the facts are actually not out there in the open.

That's quite different from the reaction one would get with respect to someone who has had no accusations, such as, say, Karl Klein, for whom the response would likely be "that's preposterous".

I'm not sure what you mean about Klein. I was party to a conversation once where Knorr exclaimed about Karl that "the man is a nut. The only reason we keep him is he's a good writer." On another occasion when I was driving Klein and his wife to the airport, Klein complained for most of the trip that the only person standing in the way of good governing body decisions was Knorr, and he gave several examples. That was stuff I wasn't supposed to hear, but it illustrates how much animosity existed between members of the governing body at times. On the other hand, most Bethelites were unaware of this and usually spoke in glowing terms about GB members, except when a GB member happened to get dismissed. Then it was another story. They could find nothing good to say about the person, and that was certainly true with respect to Greenlees.

Frank

AlanF

Frank, the WTS officials I spoke to were in a position to know the facts. There is nothing of rumor or hearsay about it. One of them was surprised when I brought it up, but then filled in details like this: the parents of the boy Greenlees molested brought the matter to the Society's attention; the Governing Body itself tried Greenlees and found him repentant -- that's why they merely dismissed him rather than disfellowshipped him. If you want more information, PM me your phone number.

AlanF

VM44

An interesting question is if the charges against Greenlees were true, then why was he appointed a "Special Pioneer"?

If my memory is correct, Greenlees went to the San Diego area after he left Bethel.

--VM44

edited to add: AlanF wrote that the GB found him to be "repentant", but it is still interesting that he was assigned such a high privileged status as "Special Pioneer". I understand that Special Pioneers receive monetary payment from the Society for living expenses.

VM44

To answer the original question, here is data for Leo Greenlees from the Social Security database. --VM44

name: LEO K GREENLEES

birth: 06 Jun 1911

death: 17 Feb 1988

last residence zip code: 11201 (Brooklyn, Kings, NY)

edited to add that blondie has already posted this information!

fjtoth

Alan,

You make a strong case, and all I can say is that you are probably right, both sides having been heard. If Greenlees was a pedophile he certainly deserves the bad name that he now has. I look back on all this with mixed emotions. I've seen too many guilty persons punished by a mere slap on the wrist, and I've seen too many persons wrongly accused by WT elders when the evidence just was not there.

Thanks.

Frank

What ever happened to homosexual GB member Leo Greeenlees, is he dead now?

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