Met with the C.O., and need help with 1975 (page 3)

OUTLAW

OnTheWayOut..I brought up the thread with AlanF`s post.."Lets get something straight about 1975"...OUTLAW

I just wanted to be sure on one point. Thanks all. I'm not going to use it though, they will
say they DID prove it's not still our doctrine with vague answers, and I am the closed-minded
stubborn one. As I stated, they might try to DF me for anything said in study, so I will just
skip it.

Still, comments/support on the meeting are appreciated. Thanks for your research.
Look, I made up my mind in less than an hour what to do. Thanks for snatching me out of the fire.

VM44

I found the postings AlanF wrote about the 7000 year doctrine.

The 7,000 years for a creative day turns out to have been wishful thinking on the part of the Watchtower, and they admitted this to AlanF in a letter they wrote him in the 1970's.

See AlanF's posting in the thread "What is the reasoning that the seventh day of rest is 7000 years?"

http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/12/119364/2103817/post.ashx#2103817

AlanF wrote a quite lenghty posting concerning the 7000 creative day and it's relation to the year 1975 in the thread, "Let's just get something straight about 1975"

http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/6/121627/2149239/post.ashx#2149239 Warning: VERY LONG

These two postings consider what the Watchtower used to teach.

It sounds like what the CO was thinking of when he said that "the Society doesn't teach that anymore" was the change in the GENERATION doctrine that was made around 1992. At that time it could no longer be said that the generation that saw 1914 would still be living when Armageddon broke out.

As far as the 7,000 years making up a Creative Day, I believe the Watchtower just says that they are just long periods of time and has moved away from assigning them specific intervals.

--VM44

Bonnie_Clyde

What blows my mind is that there are elders out there, raised in the "truth", who were not even alive when the 1975 fiasco was going on or certainly weren't old enough to remember any of it.

As I was fading, I kept very quiet about saying anything to my father or daughter about my doubts. However, one day my son-in-law, just returned from the 2004 district assembly, handed me the new release and then started talking about a talk and how they mentioned that there were people who foolishly sold their homes thinking that Armageddon was going to come in 1975. That was too much for me, and I pointed out that that that was exactly what they were encouraged to do. Son-in-law said, "They would NEVER have said anything like that." He said that his family had come into the "truth" about 1975 and he never heard much about it. I said I could show him the Kingdom Ministry. He commented, "Well, there is a Faithful and Discreet Slave." I made no comment. Didn't have the KM with me but delivered it to their home a couple of weeks later.

That was the beginning of a huge schism in my family. My very brief comments were thrown up to me and other family members even a year later. I was quoted as saying that I had questioned the Faithful and Discreet Slave. They also went to my father who was ailing physically. The end result was that my father signed his property over to my daughter--this despite the fact that I he had relied almost entirely on me for years in assisting him in taking care of my mother who was severely ill. In fact, it was the way the congregation treated him and my mother that caused me to slack off on meeting attendance and finally stop.

The only good that came out of this was that my two sons and my daughter-in-law have stopped going to meetings, and my granddaughter will not be raised as a JW. They are tired of the hyprocrisy too. I do have some things to be thankful for.

It is not good to question the BORG.

OnTheWayOut

Thanks, VM

You guys are great.

OnTheWayOut

After mulling it over, your comments to help:

I decline the study with two elders, because I am confident that I can look things up
for myself and I think that that the CO, showing me that the rest of the congregation
are more important to safeguard from the likes of me,
will ask you if there is any amunition for a disfellowshipping.

bronzefist

This is just my experiences with quite a few elders and a couple of CO's. There is NO amount of proof from any of the WTS publications that you can bring to their attention that will change their thinking on any given subject. They will NEVER admit their current thinking is flawed. One CO in his concluding talk said that you should NEVER look up scriptures or articles to disagree (support your view) with what you have been told by the BOE.

My thinking now is: "You can lead a mule to water, but you can't make him drink."

johnny cip

ok i haven't read the new awake. but didn't it say something to the effect that the world, universe was created some 15 BILLIONS YEARS AGO. THAT WOULD GO WAY BEYOND 7000 YEARS i would work this into the arguement. plus the oct 8 68 afake pg 13 about eve being created in the same year as adam. in 4026 b.c. ther are too many ways to tie their feet . the c.o. stumbling you , because it was more important to get his free dinner and green handshake. would be a major point. this sounds easy to me. i would piss the shit out of all of them. you will be fine,,, john

AuldSoul

OTWO,

The current doctrine is "thousands of years" and since they have never specifically recanted that "thousands of years" equals 7,000 years (which definitely qualifies as "thousands of years") I think you have an extremely solid line of questioning to work from.

They have NOT changed their old doctrine, they have only stopped saying it with the exact same wording.

I also agree that I see why your mother still has her view of the 7,000 years. It is a beautiful manipulation, really. Old-timers read "thousands of years" and automatically insert "7,000 years", while newcomers read "thousands of years" and think in terms of scientifically established geologic periods.

Respectfully,
AuldSoul

V

Just a quick pointer here:

The whole 6,000 years of human history, 1975 concept is based on the 7,000 creative days. Add 1,000 years of paradise on earth and you have the final "week" (the last "day" is Jehovah resting from creation, actually a non-creative day)

After the God's day of rest is over (6000 years since creating humans + 1000 years of kingdom) everything is supposed to be put right...happy ever after.

When the Society stopped believing in 7000 year creative days the whole 1975 thing had no relevance whatsoever.

So your CO is correct that the WTS does not currently believe this. You said:

The WTS said that the current 7000 year creative day started after Adam and Eve were created, but that the end did not come in 1975, 6000 years after Adam's creation, because we don't know how long it was until Eve was created, but the 6th Creative day ended before she sinned, therefore the end has to be 'right around the corner.'

So the end does not relate to the any creative days because we don't know how long each creative day lasted.

*** w01 10/1 p. 30 Questions From Readers ***
The "seventh day" was different from any of the preceding six days in that it was a day that God blessed and made sacred, that is, a day set aside for, or dedicated to, a special purpose. What was that purpose? Earlier, God had revealed his purpose regarding mankind and the earth. To the first man and his wife, God said: "Be fruitful and become many and fill the earth and subdue it, and have in subjection the fish of the sea and the flying creatures of the heavens and every living creature that is moving upon the earth." (Genesis 1:28) Although God had given mankind and the earth a perfect start, it would take time for the whole earth to be subdued and transformed into a paradise filled with a perfect human family, as God had purposed. Thus, on "the seventh day," God rested, or desisted, from further earthly creative works in order to allow what he had already created to develop in accord with his will. By the end of that "day," all that God had purposed will have become a reality. How long will that rest be?
Getting back to Paul’s statement in Hebrews, we note that he pointed out that "there remains a sabbath resting for the people of God," and he urged his fellow Christians to do their utmost "to enter into that rest." This shows that when Paul wrote those words, "the seventh day" of God’s rest, which had started some 4,000 years earlier, was still in progress. It will not end until God’s purpose regarding mankind and the earth is completely fulfilled at the end of the Thousand Year Reign of Jesus Christ, who is the "Lord of the sabbath."—Matthew 12:8; Revelation 20:1-6; 21:1-4.

Be careful when arguing this point, the Society has already brushed in under the rug...

Met with the C.O., and need help with 1975

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