Met with the C.O., and need help with 1975

by OnTheWayOut 41 Replies latest jw friends

  • OnTheWayOut
    OnTheWayOut

    Auld Soul and V, thank you for your wonderful points.

    Thank all of you (if I forgot to name you, sorry). I have already said that I won't use this as a condition to study with 2 elders, they will just say they proved their point and I am stubborn. Instead, I will use the CO's so-called help as a major reason for my stumbling, and becoming inactive. I would share my letter of response with you-all, but I still need to be able to deny that OnTheWayOut is me. I will edit it and post the altered version here in a few days. Suffice it to say, I told my BOE what a person would normally receive from the CO when it appears that they are spiritually weak.

    They would get more than a few minutes of his time before going off to dinner with the spiritually strong, they might even get a prayer, they would certainly get an ear for close to an hour.

  • No Apologies
    No Apologies

    I pointed out that article from 2001 that V quoted a while back, to me it still implies a 7000 year creative day, and is the most recent reference to this concept. As others have stated, they usually refer to creative days as lasting for thousands of years, its reassuring to the old-timers, while still acceptable to younger and better-educated dubs. Also, the fact that they acknowledge that the Universe is billions of years old makes them sound a little more rational than the Young-Earth people.

    http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/6/115365/1.ashx

    No Apologies

  • AlanF
    AlanF

    Blondie, AuldSoul and others have made the proper connections: while the Society does not currently emphasize teaching that the creative days were 7,000 years long, what it does teach is consistent with that tradition. If one takes the view that the last thing explicitly stated in Watchtower literature on a subject is the definitive word from the JWs' claimed "faithful slave", then the Society is still teaching the 7,000-year idea, even though they no longer state it outright. But I think that they've actually dumped the old idea, and are being cagey about saying so in order not to upset older JWs who stick with the old teaching out of habit.

    It's true that newer JWs have little or no idea about the old teaching of 7,000-year creative days. When my daughter, at age 14, quit the JWs and came to live with me in 1999, I found that she had never heard of this silly notion, and was flabbergasted when I showed her the teaching in various pre-1985 publications. Most young JWs have no problem with the fact that life has been on the earth for billions of years.

    Older JWs have a serious problem, though. Not long ago an older man struck up a conversation with me while we were waiting for something. One thing led to another, and it turned out that he had been a JW for more than 50 years. I asked him (without letting him know that I was once a JW) what the current teaching about the creative days is. He said that the creative days were thousands of years long, and launched into a fairly long monologue about what happened during those creative days. So I said that it sounded like he had no problem with the fact that microscopic life has been around for some 3.5 billion years and multi-celled life for some 600 million. He surprised me by saying that he doesn't believe that for a second. I pressed him about how long he thinks life has been around. He did a bit of mental calculation and said, "Oh, around 15,000 or 20,000 years." Obviously, he still retains the old 7,000-year belief, despite knowing the Society's current cagey phrasing. I actually got the impression that he was trying to be cagey with me in that he was clearly reluctant to state his actual belief until I pressed him.

    It's clear to me that the Society wants to change the ancient tradition without upsetting the older JWs who make up the bulk of elders and the cores of many congregations. Their failure to be straightforward in this matter is yet another proof that JW leaders are more interested in retaining the fiction that they speak for God than in promulgating truth.

    AlanF

  • drew sagan
    drew sagan

    I know where you are on this one. I think it is time for you to make a decision on how you want to handle things, because if you don't this WT leadership will just walk all over you. Make your choice in stradgey and make it happen.

    The C.O. means nothing, and he dosn't give a care. He is just another authority figure between you and your freedom. Don't care about him, he is pointless.

    You need to decide how you want to leave, and who you need to bring in on your side in order for your plan to work. For me, I needed to get my wife and her family on my side in order for the WTS to have no power over me. I have allready won over my wife, and now the plan is to move onto her family (parents). Once they are able to see the WTS is not the truth, we simply will stop going to the KH and tell all of the Elders and others who stop by, call, or write to us simply to leave us alone and that we are not interested in talking about anything.

    I think you are wasting your time on this 7000 year thing with this Co and a possible 'study'. Your never going to want to go through that crap if it comes down to it. I wouldn't play any games with them. Just do whatever it takes to get them off your case and use the time you buy to build a stradgey to kindly inform your family of WT lies (making sure to only ever use Watchtower publications and never the Bible).

    This has what my plan has developed into and it seems to be the best way to go. I wouldn't bother with discussions with Elders and Co's, they will just make you angry and end up in their power being lorded over you.

  • tijkmo
    tijkmo

    the teaching has definately changed...but as has been noted quietly in the hope no-one notices..

    the co's reaction is despicable,,,,not just that he doesnt know the current thinking...but that he is disinterested in looking into something that is troubling one of the sheep...despicable....but not untypical

    'shoot the wounded...remove them from our sight'

  • OnTheWayOut
    OnTheWayOut

    Great insight Alanf

    while the Society does not currently emphasize teaching that the creative days were 7,000 years long, what it does teach is consistent with that tradition. .............But I think that they've actually dumped the old idea, and are being cagey about saying so in order not to upset older JWs who stick with the old teaching out of habit.

    Thanks Drew

    I think you are wasting your time on this 7000 year thing with this Co and a possible 'study'. Your never going to want to go through that crap if it comes down to it.

    All true. I never wanted to study with the elders, and I can never "win" a doctrinal argument with assimilated people. My response to the offer of a study is going to be quite clear- I was stumbled by the CO. Is that true, in reality? NO, I feel great that his true colors have been shown. As an elder, I would know better than to not even give the publisher a listening ear and a prayer to make him feel like the organization cares for him.

    I will have to proceed with my fade without the wife's support. She's just not ready for the deprogramming at full force. I will keep helping her along. I will continue to attend most meetings, but no preaching. That will eventually turn to SOME meetings. For the sake of the wife, I will go to assemblies, perhaps not staying the entire session. One day, I hope to say FREE AT LAST, FREE AT LAST.

  • poppers
    poppers

    Jesus said a shepherd would leave the 99 sheep and search for the 1 that strayed. Go take care of the 99 others."

    I hope he felt his balls shrivel when you said that.

  • drew sagan
    drew sagan

    I really wish you the best OnTheWayOut. Just to add my personal expierance (for what it's worth), sometimes it is best to focus on the simple things with your wife instead of talking about how 'everything is wrong'. Thats what i did at the beginning. I started questioning everything, getting into all kinds of differant things that made her more scared than anything. Then one day I showed her Luke 21:8, where Jesus says not to follow anybody who announces that the 'due time has approached'. She knows they have done this in the past, and continue to do it now. It was enough to open her up. From there she finally started thinking on her own. I was able to tell her about Rays books, and stuff that is available on the internet.

    Sometimes it just takes the right thing at the right time. Good luck!

  • OnTheWayOut
    OnTheWayOut

    Poppers,

    What I saw was that he was able to keep eye contact, and he did not change
    his determination to get out of there.
    As an elder, I was totally floored. I know sometimes the publishers don't get
    the help they need from the elders, but the elders at least go thru the motions.
    Many of you might say they don't go thru the motions- I am sure there are plenty
    of poor examples, but remember, the PO was right there. Even though he will
    never admit (to me) the CO botched it, he will tell the other elders what happened.

    Just in case he doesn't, I WILL. I will really get some miles out of this.

  • poppers
    poppers
    Even though he will
    never admit (to me) the CO botched it, he will tell the other elders what happened.

    Just in case he doesn't, I WILL. I will really get some miles out of this.

    Good for you! Hold their feet to the fire.

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