Help me corner them!

by Sam87 26 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  jwfacts

  There is no wonder pill to open a JW mind. Remember that religion is based on faith; that is, believing in things that can not be proven. People that want to believe something will justify what is obviously wrong to everyone else with thought stopping statements such as "the light gets brighter", "it is not for us to question the ways of Jehovah" and "there is no where better".

  That said, it is great you are trying, and there are many JWs that are ready to move on, and need someone like you to guide them in the right direction.

  The most powerful thing with the UN is to print off the UN letter, and then tell them that they can look at it on the UN website.

  There are a lot of quotes at jwfacts.com that should help. Particularly useful is to ask questions about

  • the history of the religion with all the pyramids etc http://jwfacts.com/index_files/davinci.htm
  • the current illogical blood stance, print out the chart and ask the listed questions http://jwfacts.com/index_files/blooddoctrine.htm
  • who was the Slave prior to Russell http://jwfacts.com/index_files/5min.htm

  However I can not stress enough that a JW is brainwashed and will totally dismiss logic. For instance the response I get everytime I ask "why can a JW have a blood fraction if they can not donate blood?" is "it doesnt matter because taking blood fractions is a conscience matter". The answer is irrelevant and totally sidesteps the question, but almost every JW I have asked has said the same thing. The only approach is softly, and only then will work if they are ready to move on. Even if it does not work for now, you will be planting seeds that they will mull over during the years to come.
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  JK666

  The UN scandal is a good one that may open their eyes. Just use the letter from the UN about them being an NGO for 10 years, and the articles from "The Guardian" that exposed them. Then juxtapose with the articles about what whores the Catholics are being UN NGO's. WHEN THE LIE IS SO BIG - IT CAN'T BE THE TRUTH!!!!!!!!!!!! John
• 

  CatOnARoof

  I'm new here and not a JW, but Im interested in all religions for more academic reasons. Would never be a part of a religious organisation though.the one thing I could never understand is how can they refuse blood but eat meat which is full of it? (you can never remove all of it from meat) They have visited a few times and I'm not that informed to ask any REAL question, I dont know much about them. They always "appear" to have all the answers, and Id like to have a good argument and proof. Can anyone help me with this, maybe send a link to a site that explains it well? I'm not trying to prove anyone wrong, I respect all religions to a certain degree and I let ppl believe whatever they want. I have some "crazy" beliefs myself. But I'd like to have an EQUAL and intelligent conversation with them and present some evidence... They just cant be right about everything.lol... Thanks!
• 

  CatOnARoof

  I already posted in this thread but theres one thing I'd like to add which I cant understand about JW. From my understanding they say that ppl will be vegeterians when in paradise. (correct me if Im wrong) because there wont be death. Ok, thats nice.. BUT, then how can they justify being meat eaters now? Ppl are also meant to be good and pure in paradise, so if using the same logic, we could all as well be bad, and wait for the goodness to kick in after we die. They confess meat is bad but they eat it... You could use the same logic for drugs, violence, sex before marriage etc? and just say its bad and it won't be allowed in paradise, but its OK for now? See my point?

  And like I already said, they DO eat blood (you cant drain all of it from meat). How do they explain this? Does anyone know?
• 

  jgnat

  on how to 'corner' my ex JW mates so they see im right with only what their publications say and with the bible?

  Cornering doesn't work, unless your only intent is to win an argument. It's not logic and reason that keeps them in, so logic won't get them out. They stay out of fear. Fear of death, fear of isolation. Is your ultimate goal to help them out of the society? Then I suggest a different approach. Address their fears. For now, I suggest you simply say that you have your own personal reasons for leaving, you don't want to stumble them. If they must know your reasons, they are welcome to drop by any time, your door is open. Start building files on various issues such as blood, the UN, shunning, failed prophecy, the "Anointed" doctrine, the FDS doctrine, baptizing children. IF a friend takes you up on the offer, bring up ONE issue that you think they most likely hold private doubts about. Work that over good.

  Plant seeds.

  Wait.

  I also strongly suggest one or two of Steve Hassan's books before you try and help a JW exit. www.freedomofmind.com

  CatOnARoof, check out the link www.ajwrb.org for everything blood related. The visitors to your door might be surprised to learn there is an organization of Witnesses and ex-Witnesses dedicated to the reform of the Jehovah's Witness blood doctrine. If you are ready for a LOT of reading, check out the "Best of" section of this website.
• 

  Black Sheep

  Get to know 607/587 really well. If you can find a copy of the Jan 1 1965 Watchtower with the reigns of the kings listed, learn how to use it.

  Start with Alleymom's KISS thread.

  http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/10/55372/1.ashx

  Edited to add. See Farkel's 587 BC for Total Dunderheads http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/12/74549/1.ashx
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  darth frosty

  For the cat on the roof (forgive the pun) the reason JW's seem to have all the answersis because they ask loaded questions. If I came to you and asked what you thought of the cessna airplane chances are you know nothing about them. Guess what I'm an aerospace technician and I work on them daily, so when I start answering the questions I just posed to you I come off looking like a genius. Thats the bait they trap you with. They approach you with preloaded question's and then give you there interpretations
• 

  greendawn

  The blood ban is a gross misinterpretation (or perhaps wilful?) blood donation doesn't involve anyone's death or suffering it is done willingly to help fellow human beings in dire need facing death, to save lives, and only a morbid mind would still consider it a sinful act to receive this blood. The religious Jews themselves do not ban transfusions though they consider themselves to be under the Mosaic law from which the dubs derive this ban.
• 

  Clam

  Welcome CatonARoof. There is a huge amount of information about the JWs on the Net and what 24 carat false prophets they are. This is one link you might find interesting - http://www.freeminds.org/psych/openmind.htm
• 

  garybuss

  Welcome Sam87
  
  Don't look for lines and flips going in. Instead of hitting them with a line from a book, hit em with the whole library. But wait, and memorize the whole library yourself first. Then you come to them with the wisdom of a sage and the strength of a boulder in the river. To do battle with a Jehovah's Witness is to fight an unarmed man. They're aware of their defective status, that's why they have to shun a sage to protect themselves.
  
  Only a fool throws stones at his students to try to make them learn. That's what you want to do. Spend the time in study and learn the ways of a master, wait for the students to come to you. Then sit with them and respect them. If you can't debate both sides of a subject with equal competency, you don't understand the subject well enough to be debating it with anyone.
  
  For me, keeping rapport is more important than being right. On the other hand, I don't dialog with anybody who disrespects me and I like to keep some distance between the disrespecters and me . . . I'd say 100 miles is about right.