Who knows when since they are having growth in the less well informed third world countries but in the western world it will not be long before they fail to make any new victims.
How long before the Society's growth goes negative?
by BurnTheShips 31 Replies latest jw friends
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Alpheta
Frannie said:
pfffttt! Haven't you heard? The courts ordered the WTS to deliver over the pedophiles' files and they (consequently?) issued a tract that the end of false religion is near....heheheh
Frannie, only consider, we know the tracts were in the hands of the congregations WELL before the California Superior Court ruling in mid-October. It was reported in other JWD posts that the congregations got the tract sometime in September - someone please correct this if I'm wrong. I do not see any linkage between the two events. I don't believe the GB based its latest baloney sausage on an anticipated court ruling which they will probably appeal - if they even KNOW about it or understand what the f' is going on with the law suits.
I have a feeling that these days the few 50-something year olds who are on the GB along with the legal department are running things, and the old duds in their 80's and 90's who are waiting to croak are totally clueless as to what REALLY is going on. This latest "armageddon is just around the corner" crap campaign is perhaps the last gasp these duds will have before they cock their toes up.
I look for future "new light" when - lo and behold - there ARE NO ANNOINTED left (unless they're about 115 years old or more) running things in New York. We know it's been coming for a long time, with the "nephenim" crap and such.
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Scully
Alpheta writes:
The bottom line is - the bottom line! Headquarters doesn't give diddly squat about increasing the numbers UNLESS that means a big fresh influx of cash. And they sure aren't going to get a big fresh influx of cash from third world country converts where the average income is what - $100 or less per annum?
This "growth in developing countries" routine that the WTS is playing, imo, is nothing more than a way to raise more funds in wealthy nations. Think about it: They always quote the scripture about "equalizing" - they play up the fact that these Brothers™ and Sisters™ have nothing. Yet, they manage to find money to build Kingdom Halls, send missionaries over, etc, etc. The cash flow is still coming from the US and Canada and Europe. The Help Us Build Kingdom Halls in Africa plea is nothing more than the JW/WTS equivalent of World Vision and Save the Children commercials.
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MinisterAmos
Over 30% of the assemblies held in the US are in Spanish.
Yes it would have gone negative in the US except for the push to bring in foreign language speakers.
From personal experience I note that there is a membership decline in regions of the US which is bolstered by growth in other areas.
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Alpheta
Scully said:
"The Help Us Build Kingdom Halls in Africa plea is nothing more than the JW/WTS equivalent of World Vision and Save the Children commercials."
Precisely! Informed people know that 80% and very likely more of any contributions given to such organizations NEVER get into the hands of the recipients for whom the contribution was intended; it's all eaten up by various "administrative costs". Yeah, right. And just to whom and where do those administrative costs flow? With the WTBTS, we can't even find out because the org isn't required to file even an information return in the USA. What crap!
I expect the WTBTS cash crunch to continue to slowly worsen as (1) more of the middle-class rank and file leave the WTBTS in the "rich" countries (the influx of poorer people into Spanish language and other minority congregations will not make up the difference in dollars, therefore there will be a negative impact despite a possible "increase" in the number of r&f) and (2) the remaining rank and file in the "rich" countries "vote with their pocketebooks" (I think Blondie used this term) and there is a continuing decline in the amount of money flowing into the WWW.
The GB is hardly likely to openly solicit funds to defend the dozens of law suits currently pending against it (well, at least not at the present time, lol!). But defending law suits costs lots of money. Even if the Legal Department has enough attorneys to honcho it over all the various law suits filed just in the USA alone (which I highly doubt), local counsel is STILL needed in jurisdictions outside the immediate New York area to attend hearings, act as a central collection point for pleadings in the various suits, and advise concerning conforming to local rules and procedures. Begging for money "for the poor Africans" is a viable alternative to raising funds, at least for the time being!
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Kaput
I reckon it's all made up anyway.
Don't trust anything they say!
That's about the size of it! If they lied to us from the beginning, why are they going to tell the truth now?
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free2beme
From a business standpoint, 1-2% growth per year, is negative. Not to mention the fact that the Witnesses love to fudge their numbers, and manipulate them to show something that they are not.
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moshe
The Church of Jesus Christ of LDS are having problems with scientific facts getting in the way of their Book of the Mormon. They have tried to dismiss the revelation that so far, no Native American's dna shows any Semitic origins. Mormons believe that the lost tribes of Israel came to North America about 600bc. They continue to say the the absence of proof does not mean the Book of the Mormon is false. They use the same argument the President Bush used to go to war against Iraq-ie, we can't find wmd's , but that doesn't mean Saddam has gotten rid of them.
I discussed this dna problem with two Mormon missionary girls a couple of months ago. They seemed unaware of the dna issue or didn't care about it.
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Qcmbr
Perhaps Moshe you'd like to enlighten me about the DNA issue without cut and paste. You need to explain how an asiatic population (Jaredites and others) numbering into the millions over several centuaries and clearly having spread all across the continent of America then has an infusion of Hebrew blood numbering much less than 100 (and having a tiny breeding portion) would be expected to have hebrew DNA show up 1600 years later especially since the majority of any potential 'pure' blood (and of course that's genetically indefensible - they must have had a measure of intermarriage) were then killed in a genocidal tribal battle. You are allowed a small additional input of Hebrew blood also with the Mulekites but don't get too carried away with counting them much higher than the first infusion.
Strawman.
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Alpheta
Moshe raises an excellent point vis a vis the Mormons' "dogma" - about the lost tribes of Israel ending up here in the good old USA. Science is, indeed, catching up with these 19th century prophets who never, in their wildest dreams, thought their "prophecies" would come back to bite them in their butts.
I read about this just a few days ago in my local newspaper, they had a special spread laying out the varying theories on how the so-called "New World" was populated (for myself, I won't rule out that people were here all along) - anyway, as best I can paraphrase it, it seems that 4 of 5 mitochondrial DNA (traces the mother's DNA???) show conclusive Asian ancestry for Native Americans - but the 5th "strand" points to a European ancestry...Yes - after frantically digging through my paper recycle bin, I have found the article, from the Monday, October 16, 2006 edition of the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel, "Pulse" section under "Earth - Diary of a planet":
"Scientists are also considering much more complex and diverse migration patterns, based on mitochondrial DNA research on living American Indians.
"Studies found that 95% of American Indians fell into four lineages, all of which were also found in Asia. They also found out, however, that a small number of American Indians belong to a fifth lineage, which doesn't appear in Asia but in Europe. Researchers also found this lineage among some ancient DNA samples, which suggested they were not the outcome of any post-Columbus contact with Europeans."
This information was published in a widely-circulated local newspaper, in a popular section, and written in language that a "regular" person can understand (i.e., not in scientific jargon).
Current knowledge - if it becomes widely known among the general populace through such similar articles - will Kill The Watchtower because, eventually, it will filter its way down even to the most stubborn r&f person who tries to maintain an aura of ignorance.
The WTBTS does not, of course, rely upon "migration theory" to support their religious dogma; but they HAVE relied upon 1914 CE for the last 125 plus years as a keystone year in their supposedly God-given chronology. The year 607 BCE according to the Watchtower, is THE key date upon which they calculate their entire "end times" eschatology. That is the supposed date upon which Jerusalem was finally decimated and the final part of the population remaining there, who weren't otherwise killed, were carried off to Babylon for "70 years" captivity.
The problem is that, as archaeological knowledge and discoveries (including continual translations being added into the public realm of the gigantic cuniform clay tablet libraries recovered from Babylon and environs) have gone forward from Russell's time, historical records and archaeological evidence have conclusively shown that Jerusalem was finally overtaken by the Babylonians in 586BCE - not 607 BCE. While 586 BCE is not a date of which the "average person" on the street may be aware, it IS a date that often comes up in chronologies concering ancient history (no doubt one of the reasons the Society is so terrified of the r&f pursuing a higher education, because THAT greatly increases one's chances of coming across this date in course work, for instance). And one doesn't need to be in college to learn about this date. I have pinned up on my computer hutch a mini-"timeline" that I clipped out of an old issue of "Biblical Archaeology Review" some time ago, and it states: "Babylonian Period 586-539 B.C.".
The topic of the significance of 1914 and 607 has been much discussed elsewhere at this forum, and it's not my intent to resurrect those discussions here. I only add my two cents worth - it's been over 10 years since I read "Crisis of Conscience" (I think I need to re-read it with "new" eyes), and I seem to recall that the author mentioned that at one point, because of their awareness of certain chronology problems, the GB had discussed possibly moving up the date from 1914 to 1934 or 1935??? That would put secular history into the early years of Hitler's rise in Germany, pre-WWII.
I also recall reading in "C of C" the GB discussing a date the Russians launched the first "Sputnik" - was that 1957 or 1958 - and somehow linking that date to some of the "signs of the end times."
In either case, I could certainly see the Society putting forth some future "new light," enough to convince the r&f of the need to "readjust their thinking forward" to circa 2034-2035 - or even later...