DO YOU STILL HAVE PERSONAL INTEGRITY? (page 2)

Sunspot

Isn't the question the wrong way round? I think it would be better to ask if dubs themselves have personal integrity? Surely their morality is the result, not of personal integrity, but of an enforced code and their complying is out of fear of penalty i.e. DF and all that goes with it.

Juni,

As I read Jeff's post, something was crawling around my brain that I couldn't quite put my finger on.....and Ozzie hit my thought right on target, so I quoted him! I feel I have more personal integrity and not by following a man-made mandated list of "do's & don'ts" as prescribed by some men in Brooklyn.

I am able to toss out the judgmental thoughts and observations of my fellow man now, and I am far more lenient in accepting what others think and do IN their lives and WITH their lives.

Basically, I'm still the same person I was when a JW as far as morals go, (I didn't sink into any low pit of debauchery as we used to hear about) and I actually drink less now than when I was trying to achieve the rat-race lifestyle for so many years.....I simply do not have the desire to drink and try to get a "buzz" on. I used to pour a glass of wine the minute I hit the front door and kicked off my shoes after a meeting!

It's not "required of me" to follow a regimen and weekly calendar programmed around pleasing the WTS any longer.....I have only ONE Lord and Savior to lead me, and my desire is to please HIM----and not "them" as in the past. My new spiritual leader is far more kind and patient with me and makes no demands of me, and is forgiving when I mess up.

It's easier to center your life around listening to and following a warm and genuinely loving "boss" who does not beat OR browbeat you into submission, and one I am not in fear of. I am much more willing to WANT TO stay in step with the One I should have been listening to all along.

Annie

Seeker4

Juni asked: How do you feel about maintaining a standard of moral integrity even though not a JW any longer?

The idea behind that is insulting. Does it assume that one would only have moral integrity because you belong to a religion? How ridiculous!

I leave a religion that assumes god is going to destroy billions of people because they refuse to believe the ramblings of a fringe religion, that lets their members die by refusing medical treatment based on the interpretation of the dietary codes of a group of 4000 year old bedouins, and that asks its members to shun anyone, including close family members, because of their rejection of illogical and unscientific teachings, and you want to know if I can still maintain moral integrity?

Come on! Get real.

S4

juni

I appreciate your comments.

I was very bothered yesterday by Butter's comment when he was at the WalMart store and was speaking up for a DFed man who had cheated on his wife; seemed to me minimizing unfaithfulness to one's marriage mate. I don't know if he was being facitious, but he then went on to say that he toked w/him in the parking lot in celebration of his (Butter's) putting the shunner in his place.

For one thing - when you become a member of any organization or even a forum - there are rules to be followed otherwise you are ousted. So you are aware of these "rules" when you join in. JWs have shunning. And carry it to the extreme of breaking up families instead of just "ousting" the individual who "breaks their rules".

Never the less, that individual has shown disregard for personal integrity or had none from the beginning.

No longer a JW, I still have moral integrity in the matter of being faithful to a marriage mate. I don't need anyone/or organization to tell me what's right/wrong. But would I celebrate w/someone who did committ adultry because he was being shunned by an organization who has those rules which he/she accepted when becoming a member? Absolutely NOT.

I wouldn't celebrate w/any one who was an adulterer, etc. I would talk w/them, but not minimize their wrong doing.

Juni

LovesDubs

I brought my integrity in....saw it didnt fit theirs....and took my integrity back out the door with me.

trevor

Having moral integrity means abiding by the standards that we think are correct. The difficulty is that standards are in many cases subjective.

Terrorist - such as the IRA, suicide bombers and those behind the 911 killers, claimed they were acting for moral reasons. Then Bush and Blair claimed the moral high ground as their reason for attacking Iraq.

On a more personal level many Christians have used their moral integrity as reason to condemn and vilify homosexuality, sex outside of wedlock and anyone who does not believe in Christ.

Does having more liberal views or greater tolerance, since leaving the Jehovah’s Witnesses, mean that we have lowered our standards?

Sometimes integrity to a morality that shows tolerance or acceptance of other people and the way they choose to live is the manifestation of enlightenment.

Sunspot

Come on! Get real.

S4....

Haven't you known former JWs who have gone to wild extremes when they left the WTS? I sure have! They had a complete reversal of the morals AND the integrity they appeared to have as JWs.....saying and doing things and engaging in behaviors that would have been unheard of just a few months before they left! I have seen this in my own family circle!

I think Juni's questions were quite "real".

Annie

juni

Ozzie said:

I think it would be better to ask if dubs themselves have personal integrity? Surely their morality is the result, not of personal integrity, but of an enforced code and their complying is out of fear of penalty i.e. DF and all that goes with it.

I can only speak for myself, but I didn't need anyone/organization to hold punishment over my head to be true to my personal integrity and I'm sure there are other JWs who are the same way. I AM NOT AGREEING w/the JW religion. And I do agree that it is stupid to think that the only "good" people are JWs.

Considering your answers I worded my Topic wrong. Should've left out the word "still".

Juni

katiekitten

Surely their morality is the result, not of personal integrity, but of an enforced code and their complying is out of fear of penalty i.e. DF

I agree. I think they should be questioning their standards not me.

Also, if I measure my morality up against theirs and say "ohh look, my morality is still as good as yours", surely I am accepting their standard as the 'gold' standard. One that I still have to measure up to or fall short of.

I say screw their standard of morality. A standard that says lets pretend no-one has a shag before marriage so that when we do we fall pregnant straight away, cos buying contraceptives would be admiting we were planning to have a shag. A standard that says lets pretend no-one shags anyone else within a marriage, when we all know its going on all the time at KH, and all you have to do is leave the troof, leave your partner, come back in with your new screw and youre welcomed back into the fold.

My morality is WAY better than their and WAY more fun, and WAY more honest. And if I have screwed around its because I asked myself for permission, and I said "yes, thank you for asking Katie, go ahead and have a shag, make sure you enjoy it, dont get pregnant, dont get any STD's and be honest with the person youre screwing".

AuldSoul

Integrity is being true to one's self. So, "moral integrity" is being true to one's morals. Whether or not my morals match up with someone else's standards I cannot say. I know for sure my moral standards do not match up with many other people's moral standards.

For instance, I have no problem at all with men looking at my wife's face, completely uncovered, whether or not I am present and whether or not the man is a relative of hers. I also have no problem with my wife wearing makeup, if she chooses to do so, or wearing shorts in public, or a two-piece bathing suit. But these would be morally offensive to many people in the world, and some of these are even offensive to many people in this country.

What's more, I am primarily caucasian and my wife is of mixed descent, with predominantly African heritage. This is offensive to the basic morals of a LOT of people in this country.

But I am true to my morals, therefore, I still have personal moral integrity. If I have to check my morals against the morals of other people in order to know whether I am keeping my integrity, then I cease to have integrity.

Respectfully,
AuldSoul

Satanus

Like ozzie and nark, i don't see morals and integrity synonamously. By wt standards, my morals are low. However, my personal integrity is much higher. Integrity is about being whole, complete, integral. That means that i try to go w my nature, not fight it. I try to be the real me. As jw's we were taught to squash our personalities and build a new one, the wt one. I now work on resurrecting those parts.

However, that doesn't mean that i tread on the rights of others. I respect the ties (marriage or otherwise) that others may have. Empathy dictates that. That is part of my nature too, i suppose.

S

DO YOU STILL HAVE PERSONAL INTEGRITY?

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