by juni 46 Replies latest jw friends
Frannie said:
Juni, IMO, I don't think integrity comes as a result of studying or following someone's teachings. I think that either a person has it (it's innate) or they don't. It couldn't possibly be the result of being attached to an organization of any type.
Frannie
I totally agree with you. That isn't what I meant. A lot is lost when you can't speak to someone directly. I just did not form my Topic question in the best way.
Juni
That isn't what I meant. A lot is lost when you can't speak to someone directly. I just did not form my Topic question in the best way.
Okay, Juni.....I'm now trying to figure out what you really meant. Are you questioning how we feel about Butter's interaction with the JW? or hwo we feel about the JW's actions? That whole scenario wasn't clear to me. I've probably got to much gumbo on the brain this morning anyway...
Frannie
I have no higher authority to account to so my moral integrity is more valuable then before. Before, 50% of it was being afraid of reprisal, now I want to maintain my integrity, and have no hope of a reward for my good behaviour. Before, I was like a child who needed to be baited and disciplined, but now I am a sole being responsible to myself and the person I have commited to.
It is only the dubs who look out from within the secure wall of the Kingdom Hall and the emotional wall of the WTS mindset and see Us on the outside and think, "look at them they dont look happy". As a dub it was a well known fact that anybody that left the organization became dissolute , grew a beard (if a man) listened to Satanic music smoked , drank, chased women or men, lived life as perverts, stole , got drunk , in fact lived like "unreasoning beasts" . Never mind , we said let them do so for a while, they have not much time left before Jehovah sweeps them all away..........
The reality in fact is oh so different. the people here are a broad mix of individuals who all act differently - but we all retain our humanity and now do it for the right reason, not fear of retribution.
Well after scanning all the comments I have to say Trevor put my answer to this question in great words so no need for me to repeat.
U go boy!!
Smiles
How do you feel about maintaining a standard of moral integrity even though not a JW any longer?
This point is not very hard to understand. Anyone on this board should know what Juni means. I had few morals before the j.w.'s. They helped me to become a moral person, and I still have those morals.
I know some who left and completely abandoned a standard of moral integrity. One in particular, ended up, and still is, in prison.
Warlock
In a little bit different aspect of this, when I was at the WNFJ convention, the "what was the first nonJW thing you did" was being discussed by a few of us out in the lobby after the evening session on Saturday.
The Pastor from Idaho (Eric Greishaber) that had given the last "talk" that night had said he went out and donated a pint of blood! I said that I had bought a pair of ear-rings with tiny crosses on them (in fact I was wearing them that evening!) and the "Cross" necklace came a few weeks later, haha! He said his wife bought some kind of jewelry that was not WTS-approved and she then came over to where we were standing and we discussed these "acts of rebellion" even further.
It was decided that men go for the more blatant behaviors to demonstrate their new-found freedom from the WTS...and that the ladies seem to go more for the jewelry (or small tattoos) as "statements" of their freedom; things to decorate the body. It was an interesting discussion. I had't really thought of all the nuances brought out by others that we ended up talking about!
Annie
DO YOU STILL HAVE PERSONAL INTEGRITY - I hope so.
I, too, brought integrity and honesty and morality to my association with JW's. It wasn't JW's that brought it to me. Perhaps this is an indication of the type of people being drawn to Witnesses.
I also am disappointed that there is some kind of assumption being made that only JW's lead moral honest lives. WRONG! I know people who are not JW's who are supremely honest, moral and kind.
I am what I am and have always been, both pre, during and post my association with JW's.
SS
Shortly before I left JWs I used to converse quite freely with a handful of close friends. One of them was asking me a lot of questions -- admitting there might be different answers than the JW ones, but stil clinging to the JW kind of questions which in her mind had to be answered one way or another.
One day I suddenly told her (I still remember the place, we were crossing a street in Paris): Perhaps we are not supposed to have an opinion on everything.
That was a very simple, even trivial sentence, but to a JW (and to me in that moment) it was a mind-blowing and liberating revelation.
This is particularly true, I think, in the "moral" sphere. We are not supposed to either approve or disapprove of every single action in the world, sorting it as "good" or "bad" or "indifferent".
Everything happens -- the "good" and the "bad," the "beautiful" and the "ugly". Moreover, everything is related -- we wouldn't have one without the others.
If we were REALLY in someone else's shoes it is very likely that we would be doing just what s/he is doing -- no matter how admirative or disgusted we may be from another (and often remote) perspective.
Over the years I found myself doing a lot of things which I would previously have looked down on or looked up to -- in both cases, that I wouldn't have understood.
I think the beginning of "personal integrity" paradoxically lies in "do not judge" (or, as the NWT more realistically and perhaps, for once, more accurately puts it, "stop judging"). Which is the very opposite of moral theory and casuistics.
